James Baumgartner: Pat, welcome.
Pat Crowley: Thank you, James. I’m happy to be here.
Baumgartner: First of all, RIPTA riders and transit advocates say the main problem with public transit in the state is it’s poorly funded. For instance, this year, RIPTA has an 8 million dollar deficit. Some say underfunding is why RIPTA’s board recently considered a round of service cuts and why bus transportation remains inadequate. What’s your response to that?
Crowley: It’s definitely true that RIPTA has been underfunded over the last 10 to 15 years. And the riders have a very important point to make that the state does need to increase its contribution. Unfortunately, that’s only part of the story. One of the reasons why the service cuts are being contemplated is because we also face a severe driver shortage. Now, just yesterday, the Board of Directors approved a new contract with the driver’s union, the Amalgamated Transit Union, Local 618, that we’re hoping is going to address that problem. But we still need to make sure that the state increases its contribution to RIPTA.
Baumgartner: At its last meeting, RIPTA’s board voted to raise wages for new drivers, as you mentioned, by 17 percent. How does that compare with starting salaries for other professions that maybe don’t require degrees or experience?
Crowley: It puts us in a very competitive position with peer types of employers. It really is a good thing for the service to make sure that we can increase starting wages. Now the starting wage is going to be about $7,500 more a year at about $52,000. And it’s going to be easier for those drivers to get to the top of the wage scale and get there faster.
Baumgartner: But is that, $50,000 a year, is that really enough to live on in the state with the rising cost of living?
Crowley: It isn’t, but it’s a good starting wage for someone that’s trying to get a good working class job. And what we’re hopeful is that that increase in salary is going to draw more people into the profession.
Baumgartner: You’ve been in favor of Providence’s bus hub moving out of Kennedy Plaza. Why? What’s the matter with Kennedy Plaza right now?
Crowley: I don’t see Kennedy Plaza as fitting into the Transit Master Plan. And I just want to make clear that I’m speaking from my point of view as an individual board member, not for the board. We still have, you know, important decisions to make. But as I understand the Transit Master Plan, it’s going to be important to make sure that we have a facility that’s going to meet the needs of the entire system. And right now, I don’t see Kennedy Plaza as meeting those needs.
Baumgartner: If we need more facilities, why can’t we build those right at Kennedy Plaza instead?
Crowley: I don’t think the Kennedy Plaza location has the capability to build the type of 21st century bus hub that we need. I also think that there’s opportunities to modernize it so that we can have space for the riders, space for the drivers to have a break area. I also think that there’s a number of different amenities that we can add into a new location, and that’s why I think it’s important to consider different options than just Kennedy Plaza.
Baumgartner: But all those proposed options are further out of the downtown core. They’re away, they’re really far from the train station, far from the intercity buses as well. How does moving to a faraway location really improve things?
Crowley: Well, first, I think the characterization of “far away” is in the eye of the beholder. But I also think that it’s important, if there is an argument to be made about keeping it in Kennedy Plaza, I haven’t seen the data that supports that yet. I understand that there needs to be some way to integrate all of our transit options, including the train station, into the RIPTA service area. But I think the case has not yet been made that keeping it in Kennedy Plaza guarantees that. If it is the case, I’d like to see the data.
Baumgartner: Is there data saying that moving it to one of these other locations improves things for the rider experience?
Crowley: So that’s what I think the process that we’re involved in is going to explore. I mean, remember, what we’re doing is exploring this option. You know, we’ve got a parcel of land that I know that the I-195 Commission is going to be also considering in the very near future, and it’s going to take some time to figure out exactly if it is a viable option. I think it is right now, but circumstances can change, and that’s why this process is important to go through.
Baumgartner: You’ve been a vocal opponent of RIPTA’s CEO, Scott Avedisian, going so far as to call for him to step down. What’s your main criticism of Mr. Avedisian?
Crowley: Well, I think things have improved remarkably since the last year or so on the board. You know, I think Mr. Avedisian is doing an admirable job under difficult circumstances, but I think really the problem with RIPTA has been over the last several years is, is not just the administration and Scott’s performance, but it’s really been the board of directors. You know, we really have not done a good job overseeing and running the agency, which is our responsibility as much as it is the administration’s. That’s starting to change, and I think the changes that the General Assembly made to the Board of Directors structure has made a remarkable improvement over a short period of time. And I can see the difference right now in the relationship between the CEO, Mr. Avedisian, the Board of Directors, and the entire administration. Things are starting to improve, and I hope they continue.
Baumgartner: You mentioned the Transit Master Plan earlier. The Transit Master Plan, part of that is to improve funding as well. Are there mechanisms that can increase funding for RIPTA and implement that Transit Master Plan?
Crowley: I think we have to look at all of the various options. And again, speaking just as an individual board member, One of the reasons why I think it might be important to look at potentially raising taxes on the 1 percent in the state, that’s one mechanism that we could use to fund RIPTA in a more robust way. But that’s just one of several options. But it fits into the whole idea in Rhode Island that we don’t necessarily have a tax structure that really deals with all of the problems that the state is facing. And RIPTA’s only one of them. We’ve got to make sure that we re-engineer our tax system for a 21st century government operation, and we don’t have that right now.
Baumgartner: RIPTA had been considering service cuts to the bus system, but did not vote to pass those cuts at the last board meeting. Do you see that happening in the near future?
Crowley: To be determined. One of the things that the board wanted to do was make this new agreement with the driver’s union to see if that would attract a lot more drivers. And if we can attract the drivers, we’re not going to need as drastic of service cuts as has been proposed. So the board is doing its part, now we’ve got to make sure that the state fills in the gaps with the funding and that’s how we can avoid service interruptions for the riders.
Baumgartner: You’ve cited improvements in the relationship between the board and the CEO of RIPTA. Is there anything within the management structure that you feel needs to be changed aside from the CEO’s job performance?
Crowley: Well, one thing that the board has asked the administration of RIPTA to do is pay a lot more attention to our relationship with the statehouse. And we’ve taken some action to improve that. We’re going to hire a staff person at the agency who’s going to be our face at the statehouse to build strong relationships with the representatives, the senators, and the executive branch so that RIPTA’s voice can be heard on a regular basis at the General Assembly.
Baumgartner: All right, Pat Crowley, thanks for joining me.
Crowley: Thank you.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
On Monday, February 26, 2024, the I-195 commission voted to allow RIPTA to explore the feasibility of building a transit center on I-195 land.