Under-performing schools and an underfunded pension plan pose persistent challenges in Providence. And now the capital city — along with East Providence — has been most hard-hit by fallout from the closing of the Washington Bridge. Providence is the business, political and cultural capital for the state. But it faces some of the same hurdles as other cities, including the question of how to maintain a vibrant downtown when more of the people who used to fill offices are now working remotely. After decades of talk about the importance of public education, is there a plan for improving Providence schools when the city regains control of them from the state in the next year or two? Is there a way to bring more fairness to how tax breaks get handed out to developers? And what’s wrong with letting people stroll with an open container when PVDFest returns downtown in September?
Transcript:
This interview transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Mayor Brett Smiley: Thank you.
Donnis: Rhode Islanders are going to be dealing with, for years, with the aftermath of problems from the closing of the westbound Washington Bridge. Providence has been heavily impacted by this. Are you satisfied with the job performance on this issue of Governor Dan McKee and RIDOT Director Peter Alviti?
Smiley: I think there’s plenty of time to figure out, you know, who knew what, when. I am satisfied that from the moment we found out that there needed to be substantial work done, that everybody has been all hands on deck to try to get a solution as fast as possible and to get to work as fast as possible. And then there’ll be plenty of time for oversight and investigation.
Donnis: Isn’t this a huge failure of state government, considering how the state, the Raimondo administration back in 2015 announced an ambitious effort to assess and overhaul the state’s deficient bridges?
Smiley: You know, I think the huge failure of government would be if, God forbid, this bridge had collapsed and we had very serious injuries, and these things have happened around the country. And so while everyone is frustrated, and I certainly am as well, that we’ve been dealing with this already now for several months, hopefully we can all acknowledge that we avoided an actual catastrophe that could have cost someone their life.
Donnis: You testified at the Statehouse this week against what you called a loophole in state law that provides a tax break meant for low income housing to developers of luxury housing. We should mention that one of the beneficiaries of this has been Arnold Buff Chase, who is a financial supporter of The Public’s Radio. My question for you is whether the current approach is really a giveaway for affluent developers at the expense of mom and pop landlords.
Smiley: I think this is one of these examples that when the bill was written and for decades when it was used, it was used in the way it was intended, which was a benefit to affordable housing developers for preferential tax treatment and traditionally had been used in projects that were entirely affordable. And then a couple of private developers realized that they could qualify for this too without having to make the entire project affordable. So now we have private developers where, say, 20 percent of the units might be affordable, and yet 100 percent of the project receives this tax benefit. And so this loophole, as I call it, has been discovered and it needs to be closed. And so the city of Providence, under my leadership, has a proposal to do that. And I hope that the state legislature passes it this year.
Donnis: The first of two public hearings on the proposed sale of Charter Care, which includes Roger Williams Medical Center in Providence, is scheduled for next week. Roger Williams is a major employer and a big taxpayer in Providence. Do you support or oppose the proposed sale of Charter Care to Centurion Foundation out of Atlanta?
Smiley: Well, there’s been really serious concerns about the previous owner, the outgoing owner of Charter Care. And it’s not just that they’re a big employer and a major taxpayer. It’s critical to our state’s health infrastructure that we have those hospital beds, emergency room beds, detox beds available. And so I’m very interested in making sure that we have a good, responsible new owner. I have confidence in the process, both the Attorney General and the Department of Health, which is vetting that application. I’m not in a position to vet that application. We don’t have those resources and we aren’t tasked with that. But I will say it is critically important that Roger Williams stay open and continue to serve our community. And so I hope that everyone does their homework and if this is the right way to go, a responsible provider, that they get a chance to then go do the work and serve our community.
Donnis: If a non profit owner were to take control of Roger Williams would that affect the city’s tax revenue?
Smiley: Potentially. The current owner, which is for-profit, doesn’t actually pay taxes directly. They have a PILOT agreement, a payment in lieu of taxes agreement and we would work with a new non-profit owner about how to treat that PILOT agreement on a go forward basis.
Donnis: The city announced this week that PVD Fest will be moving back downtown in September. A lot of people are excited about that. People really seem to love PVD Fest. However, people will not be able to walk around as in the past under a previous mayoral administration with an open container. Do you think people are just too irresponsible to handle drinking, having a drink or two or three in public like that?
Smiley: I mean, the problem is, is that I think most people are responsible, but all it takes is one. That’s not, you know, I take public safety very seriously. We want everyone to have a safe, fun experience at PVD Fest. We also want to make sure that families and people of all ages can enjoy this festival. And so there’ll be, in this year’s PVD Fest, there’ll be plenty of places to get a drink and it’ll be easy to both enjoy and listen to the performances while enjoying an adult beverage, if that’s what you’re here to do. But you’ll have to finish that drink at the location where you are before you move on to your next stop.
Donnis: The return to local control of the Providence schools is still off in the future. What is your plan after decades of talk about the need for better student performance to ensure that when local control does return, that the schools are on the track for improvement?
Smiley: Yeah, so the state turnaround effort has not yet yielded the results that I think many of us had hoped for, but that doesn’t mean that the plan that went into it wasn’t a good one. And so there’s a thing called the turnaround plan, the TAP, and in that TAP are a couple dozen metrics for how we measure student progress. And so what we’re doing in the process of planning to take the schools back into local control, which is I believe where they belong, is we’re taking that list of, say, 30 and getting it down to a much shorter list that’s comprehensible, that’s easy to track and easy to focus the community’s attention on. We know there’s a couple metrics that matter. We know our third graders need to be reading at grade level by third grade. We know that high school graduation rates, FAFSA completion rates and SAT completion rates matter. They’re indicators for future success. So we’re gonna be circulating with the community a list of these metrics that we’re gonna be marching and that’s when we’ll decide it’s time to take the schools back.
Donnis: The city last week sent a cease and desist order to a prominent scrap metal operator, Rhode Island Recycled Metals for doing business without a license. Some people consider these businesses along Allen’s Avenue a real eyesore, although scrap is a big business in Rhode Island. Do you have a different vision for that area of the sort that was floated by Buddy Cianci during his last run for mayor in 2014?
Smiley: Yeah, so I think the fact that we have a deep water port is an incredible economic asset and should be used to its fullest. And so there are still great opportunities in water dependent uses, including but not limited to the offshore wind industry, that will create good jobs, that will help us meet our climate challenges, and that add more economic value than, for example, this scrapyard that we’ve just sent the cease and desist order to. And so I don’t support some of the old plans that showed either casinos or hotels on the waterfront. I do think we should be taking advantage of the economic asset, which is that port and that channel. But I’m looking for a higher, better use than what we see in some of these vacant or polluting sites.
Donnis: Do you support or oppose putting a RIPTA transit hub on former I 195 land?
Smiley: I think it’s the best site, so I do support it. Now there are several conditions, including the Federal Transit Agency has a series of studies that have to happen. And so, those things have to happen, and it has to prove that those reports come back positively. I won’t be doing that work. That’s RIPTA’s job to do but having been actively involved in this bus hub discussion for years, including back when I worked at the state house, I’ve seen many of the options and looked in great detail personally at the work on many of the options. And I think this is the best option we’ve seen yet.
Donnis: What is the status of the proposal to revitalize the so called Superman building?
Smiley: It’s moving forward slowly. There is work going on there, which is great. And I can see it right out my window. I have eyewitness accounts of people doing demolition. They’re doing remediation. There’s asbestos and things like that in that building, as you would expect. So they are working, which is excellent. There’s some scaffolding up. There’s dumpsters that get taken away. They still have a financial shortfall because of everything that we know has happened in the economy. Increased interest rates, increased construction costs. And so I know we’re working closely with them. I know they’re still talking to the state. And so we’re not full speed ahead yet. But we’re also making small incremental progress, and I’m entirely committed to seeing that project get done. The Superman building is important, not just for the building itself, because if that building stays vacant for another decade, it has the potential to have a very negative consequence on every other building around it. So it’s not just about the Superman building, it’s about making sure that building doesn’t become an anchor on the rest of downtown and drags us all underwater. And so I remain totally committed to it, and the city is very interested in being a part of the solution to see that thing move forward.
Donnis: How about the Cranston Street Armory, is anything happening there?
Smiley: So I think as people know right now, we’re filming a movie there, which is great anda productive use. And then we’ve continued to be working with the state on a long term solution and have recently started talking to the state about some short term solutions after the movie wraps up where we would like the ability to actually do some programming there to get the community to be able to use the space. Some, you know, pop ups, sports activities and other things to really continue to keep that site active and contributing to the neighborhood while we look for a long term solution.
Donnis: You’re not just the mayor of Providence. You’re also a staunch Democrat. So I’ve got a question for you about national politics. There was a news report this week that Democrats’ long time advantage with Black and Latino voters is at its lowest point in 60 years. Providence is mostly made up of people of color. What’s your explanation for that? And what do you think Democrats need to do differently?
Smiley: You know, I think now that basically the primaries are behind us, there’s still some voting left to happen, but we know who our nominees are. And I think President Biden, who I’m proud to support, has an incredible track record of accomplishments, and he’s also running against someone who is very bad for people of color in this city, in this state, and in this country. And so now that the nominees have been set and the campaign will come into contrast, I think you’ll start to see support rally for President Biden as it’s both an opportunity to talk about the things that he’s accomplished, but also to contrast against the alternative and the alternative is very bad for the future of our country.
Donnis: If, as you say, Donald Trump is bad for people of color, why have we seen support ticking up for Republicans among Latino and other people of color?
Smiley: I don’t, I can’t answer that specifically other than to say that I’m optimistic in the next however many months between now and November that we as Democrats will be able to make the case to communities of color that the Democrats’ proposal and President Biden’s track record and plans for the future are in their best interest and are worthy of their vote in November.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. The Mayor of Providence, Brett Smiley, thank you very much for joining us.
Smiley: Thank you very much.
Next week marks the 10th anniversary of when state and federal investigators swarmed through the speaker’s office at the Rhode Island Statehouse. The raid signaled the fall of Gordon Fox, who had climbed from the hardscrabble streets of Mount Hope to win what some call the most powerful political office in Rhode Island. Fox served about three years in prison after being convicted of bribery, wire fraud and tax evasion. His precipitous fall set off a scramble to succeed him and set the state on its current path. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.