The I-195 District now includes new housing, a Trader Joe’s, and the Wexford Science and Technology building. But realizing the initial vision of sparking innovation and more high-wage jobs has been a challenge. It’s not any easier now in the climate of inflation and high interest rates. So can Crisafulli foster more progress while approaching his second year of chairing the I-195 District Commission? What are the main barriers, and how can they be overcome? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with chairman of the I-195 District Redevelopment Commission Marc Crisafulli.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Marc Crisafulli: Hello. Thank you for having me.
Ian Donnis: Is the current atmosphere of higher interest rates chilling the climate for development in the 195 district?
Marc Crisafulli: So it’s a real challenge and when you look at not only higher interest rates, but construction costs and supply chain issues It’s putting pressure on our projects. So far, everything is proceeding. But we can see the effect it’s having on our development partners, and we just hope it doesn’t actually lead to anything being canceled.
Ian Donnis: Back around 2011, then Governor Lincoln Chafee referred to the vision for the 195 district as being Meds and Eds, the idea that it would help to spark high wage jobs and innovative jobs. Over time, it seems like the emphasis has mostly been on housing developments, and housing is certainly an important issue in Rhode Island, but why has there not been more commercial development?
Marc Crisafulli: I think actually we’re making a lot of progress in the life sciences center right now when you think about what we’re trying to do there. So at the CIC building, there’s 60,000 square feet of lab space being developed there that will open early next year. And we’re in the ground already on a 210,000 square foot lab building that includes the state department of health and some lab space for Brown plus another hundred thousand square feet of space available for spec. So there’s a lot happening on the commercial front there. We intend to be the center of the life sciences development in the state. We actually need to create about a thousand jobs right now to absorb all of the capacity that’s already being built. But you’re right, residential is important. There is a housing crisis and that’s what there’s demand for. So we build that.
Ian Donnis: Has the recent start of construction on the state lab led to any new possibilities as far as other commercial developments or prospects in the life sciences field?
Marc Crisafulli: Yeah, we’ve been having discussions with another lab developer on a parcel behind the state lab, which is called Parcel 27.
But I think what we’ll do right now is pause on that and let this lab start to absorb the capacity. But we want to keep that lot available for future development in the life sciences space.
Ian Donnis: How does the total value of sales by the 195 District Commission compare with the ongoing debt service for public bonds used to finance the original purchase of the land from DOT?
Marc Crisafulli: So that’s something that really gets managed by the State Department and, you know, we, we pay attention to what they’re doing, but that’s something that they’re handling and I actually think there’s going to be some developments on that shortly.
Ian Donnis: It took many years for the whole drama to play out featuring the proposal for the Fane skyscraper residential proposal. Turns out the developer walked away. That took many years. Was that a squander in your view? Did that impede other possibilities from being explored that might have moved forward or not so much?
Marc Crisafulli: No, I don’t think it impeded anything. And I think we got to the right place on that. Look, anyone that’s willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in the state, we have to take really seriously. I came onto the commission and became chair kind of late in the process, but I helped to try and bring that to a conclusion. And my view was either it needed to get built in a certain time period or we needed to move on. And so I was happy that we moved on. I would have supported it if it was built. We are now reconfiguring that lot so that it’s better suited for non residential use as well. It is a signature parcel for us, Ian, so we’ll have to see what happens with that coming up.
Ian Donnis: That lot is known as parcel 42. You have expressed hope that that could be a commercial development or some other non residential development. You say there are a lot of residential proposals that could go forward right now. How long do you think the commission should wait if, if a commercial proposal does not come forward before deciding the fate of that parcel?
Marc Crisafulli: We’re under no particular hurry to address it. I mean, it’s more important that we do it correctly than we do it quickly. When you look at, you know, districts like this around the country, it takes 20 to 25 years or so to actually get them completed. So we’re about halfway through the process. And I wouldn’t frown upon a residential project going there either if it was the right size and scale and something that really made an impact. But until we have something that we’re excited about. We’re just going to keep, keep talking to people and exploring it and see what happens.
Ian Donnis: You referred earlier to the CIC building that’s also known as the Wexford Innovation Center that was built with $32 million in public subsidies. Back in 2019 when the building opened Gina Raimondo was governor and she expressed a view that that building would become home to thousands of jobs. How has it worked out? Has that prediction come true?
Marc Crisafulli: It is a tremendous success and Ian, I would love to host you there anytime. I’m, I’m, the offices of the 195 commission are in there. It is a hotbed of commercial activity, people working jobs. There are 37 different wind related companies that call it home and it’s just a really exciting place to be. I think it’s met its vision and it’s something that we should really be proud of. We would love to replicate it if we can.
Ian Donnis: What is the total number of jobs in the building?
Marc Crisafulli: I don’t have that number, Ian.
Ian Donnis: Let’s, to switch gears, you are a public speaker about a groundbreaking cell therapy cancer treatment that successfully treated you for stage four lymphoma in 2021 in the aftermath of your cancer diagnosis. How did you find this treatment?
Marc Crisafulli: So I did it through Dana Farber and Rhode Island Hospital here at Lifespan because unfortunately my cancer was chemo resistant, so I went through all the different chemotherapy and there were no options left. Five years ago, I would have had no options, but this treatment is called CAR T-cell and it’s just extraordinary. They pull the T cells out of your body, genetically re-engineer them, and then re-insert them and train them to try and kill the cancer. It works about 40 percent of the time, and a 40 percent success rate for people who had no options is extraordinary. So I was fortunate. It worked for me, and I’ve been in complete remission two years.
Ian Donnis: We’re very happy for your good fortune. How available is that treatment for other people with cancer?
Marc Crisafulli: So it’s a, this is a, it’s a big issue for me personally and one that we have to confront as a society. So in the United States, only one out of five people who would be eligible for, this treatment actually get it. In Europe, it’s almost double that rate because of the way health care is addressed there . It’s very difficult to get this procedure done in Rhode Island. So I had to do it at Dana Farber in Boston. It’s a treatment that should be available for everyone. The company that did my treatment has now treated 18,000 people worldwide So in some respects that’s a big number. But when you think about the global population, that’s an infinitesimal number. So I think you’ll see over the next few years, this become much more prevalent around the country. And that’s certainly something I’m working towards.
Ian Donnis: You are a former senior executive with G-Tech and Twin River Bally’s. So you’ve had a front row seat for the evolution of gambling in Rhode Island and elsewhere. Used to be there was a lot of opposition, but gambling’s become very ubiquitous through sports betting and things like that. Do you think there’s too much gambling in American culture?
Marc Crisafulli: You know, anything to excess is dangerous, but I think in our country, we believe in freedom and allowing people to make their own choices, you know, whether it’s gambling or eating fast foods or drinking or all sorts of things. In moderation, people should be able to make their own choices in an excess, it’s dangerous. I think this is the way a lot of people choose to have their entertainment. And for a baseball guy like you, right, people like to go to the game, sit there for a couple hours, buy some hot dogs, pay for parking. Four hours worth of entertainment. For other people, they like to go to a casino and gamble, or play on their phone, or bet on sports. And that’s their entertainment. As long as it’s in moderation, and it’s not done to excess, I think we should support that.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned phones. There was a sharp debate in the Rhode Island House of Representatives this year about a new phone based app. Critics say that has almost a narcotic-like effect on users to keep them on the app, keep them gambling, perhaps at their own extreme expense. What do you think of that critique?
Marc Crisafulli: So, you know, we’ve heard it before, and like, like anything else, you want to do what you can to be responsible. So gaming in the state is heavily regulated. You know, actually, it’s state operated under the Constitution. Bally’s is the partner of the state of Rhode Island. And I think they’re really careful and thoughtful about how you try and structure it in ways so that it does not contribute to problem gaming. As an aside, Bally’s contributes millions of dollars a year to all sorts of gaming type responsible gaming initiatives to try and make sure people play responsibly.
Ian Donnis: Back in 2019, you said that Brett Smiley, then Governor Raimondo’s chief of staff, had threatened regulatory retaliation against Twin River Bally’s if it continued to oppose a long term contract for another gambling entity. Smiley is obviously now the mayor of Providence. You’re the chairman of the 195 district commission. Have the two of you had a rapprochement since then?
Marc Crisafulli: I think Brett Smiley is a terrific mayor. I think he’s the right choice for the city. I’m really impressed with everything that he’s doing. Our interests in developing the city are aligned and unified. We all want to see economic development. We want to see better lives for the citizens of Providence, and I fully support him as mayor and what he’s doing.
Ian Donnis: Do the two of you speak with each other?
Marc Crisafulli: We have spoken in the past, yes, about 195 issues, and I, I think we have a positive relationship at this water under the bridge.
Ian Donnis: You were in Washington, D. C. for the swearing in recently of the new 1st District Congressman, Gabe Amo. What was your takeaway from that?
Marc Crisafulli: It was an extraordinary moment. I really felt honored to be there and to witness history. He’s just such an impressive man. He’s got such a great future and I think the First District is really lucky to have him as their representative. I was just so enjoyed to participate.
Ian Donnis: You have a lot of experience in business in Rhode Island, I wonder what your view is on why the state has been unable to create new engines of job growth and what would help to move that forward.
Marc Crisafulli: So, you know, there are, it’s not going to be surprising what the challenges are to have a successful business client. You need good tax policy, you need available workforce that’s trained. You need housing, you need education, healthcare, all of those things contribute to whether a company can successfully be located here and can thrive. And I think especially the current administration and the current leadership is working to try and address some of these issues. It’s just, it’s a, it’s a never ending battle to get better and make it more competitive.
Ian Donnis: To come back to the 195 district, what is upcoming that you’re excited about there?
Marc Crisafulli: So right now we have an RFP that we issued for parcel 1A, it’s a little sliver along the east side of the river, currently where Providence Flea operates. And we’re looking to develop that. We received four proposals. We actually heard them last night. Providence Flea has made a proposal to try and stay there on a limited structure, but there are other more traditional developments that have also been proposed. I’m really excited to see how that plays out. Regardless of how it plays out, Providence Flea is a terrific partner for us. They’ve been a partner with us for 10 years. And if they are not the successful proposer on the east side, we have seven acres of parkland on the west side of the river. We’d love to just have them hosted there and continue doing what they do on Sunday mornings.
Ian Donnis: Mark Crisafulli, chairman of the I 195 district redevelopment commission. Thank you so much for joining us.
Marc Crisafulli: Thanks Ian. Always a pleasure.
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Attorney General Peter Neronha has been getting more attention for his shoot-from-the-hip style approach on X, formerly known as Twitter. His topics include the legal process and sports, although one recent tweet raised the ire of a judge. Neronha remains unapologetic about what he sees as a useful form of communication. So is this mostly about his approach to being the state’s top prosecutor, warm-up for a gubernatorial run, or something else? For more on that, read my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on X at IanDon, on threads at IanDonnisReports and at the publics radio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.