Rates of plastic surgery have increased over the last few years, and minimally invasive procedures like filler and Botox are even more popular. It’s also evident on social media that some (including plastic surgeons) are very comfortable speculating and commenting on other people’s faces, what procedures they might’ve had … and if they look botched.
But what’s the difference between “good” work and “bad” work? And how do we talk about the rise in plastic surgery without dehumanizing people for their choices?
On It’s Been a Minute, guest host B.A. Parker discusses the thorniness of beauty culture with Jessica DeFino, a beauty reporter, advice columnist at The Guardian, and writer of “The Review of Beauty” Substack, and Joan Summers, entertainment editor at Paper and co-host of the Eating for Free podcast.
Episode Highlights
What’s the difference between “good” work and “bad” work?
JOAN SUMMERS: I think that “good” work is work that is subtle, invisible, and conforms to the aesthetic standard that Hollywood puts on people. I think that “bad” work gets deemed confrontational or sort of demands you look at it. And to want to be beautiful is bad, to be naturally beautiful is good. It’s like we can see that they have attempted beauty and failed at it in our eyes, which makes it bad. If you want beauty, it also has to be an invisible desire, or a desire that you can keep hidden.
JESSICA DEFINO: What I would add to that is I think this construct of “good” work versus “bad” work really highlights the moral implications of beauty. I mean, [a] prominent pop culture example recently has been, [some people] praising Anne Hathaway and saying, “This is how you age when you’re unproblematic,” as if being a good person guarantees you aging well. These sort of silly moral judgments are really embedded in society. And we see that with the very clear moral language of “good” work and “bad” work.
How do we balance not commenting on people’s bodies in a rude or dehumanizing way, while still talking about the effects these procedures are having in culture?
JESSICA DEFINO: I think there is a way to talk about what’s happening to our desire for beauty right now without necessarily singling out any one particular celebrity, because it does affect everybody. I like to refer to what’s happening as aesthetic inflation. So it’s the normalization of injectable surgery, extreme skin care routines over the past decade that shifts the baseline standard of beauty for all. This is the standard of beauty that we are judged against. It affects how we are treated, it affects our job opportunities. And I think it’s really dangerous to dismiss it as like, “Oh, you can’t comment on somebody’s body.” Like these standards affect everybody.
Ultimately, what does it mean that getting procedures, even minimally invasive ones, is becoming more common? And how do we talk about that?
JESSICA DEFINO: When I talk about it, I try not to necessarily focus on personal choice and ask instead, why are so many people deciding to make these very similar personal choices? And personal preferences are shaped by the politics of the culture that we live in. Of course a lot of women are preferring to look younger right now. I wouldn’t necessarily call that a personal preference so much as a logical reaction to existing in a deeply ageist, sexist society. So personally, I’m more interested in highlighting those conditions that lead to these choices rather than praising or policing any individual person’s choice regarding cosmetic surgery.
JOAN SUMMERS: Yeah, as someone with what could probably be described as extensive plastic surgery work, I think that we live in a culture that hyperfocuses on individual choice and ascribing good or bad politics to what aesthetics might mean for us. And [it] focuses way less on the people that enrich themselves off of these procedures, and [who] are not always honest about what they might do to you long term. Whether that’s liposuction scars, breast augmentation illness from having implants, the effect of Juvéderm on your face after repeat injections over a long period of time – the surgeons themselves make so much money off of these procedures. I find that to be much more troubling than necessarily the idea that a bunch of young 20 year old women are getting the procedures in the first place.
B.A. PARKER: Right – we’re obviously not in the room with providers, and don’t know what they’re saying to patients, but we’ve seen some reporting about some patients having adverse reactions and saying they were totally surprised by some of the side effects.
JESSICA DEFINO: And I would also add to that, like, besides the possible physical harms or risks of surgeries, injectables, or even topical products, there are so many mental health consequences to consider as well. We have so many studies, so much data that shows us that beauty standards are associated with appearance related anxiety, depression, disordered eating. You know, we get them for a confidence boost. But what are the long term consequences of getting your confidence or your self-esteem from an injectable that you have to keep getting and getting and getting, or a surgery that may go wrong?
Transcript:
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BA PARKER, HOST:
Hello, hello. You’re listening to IT’S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR, a show about what’s going on in culture and why it doesn’t happen by accident. I’m B.A. Parker.
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PARKER: I know you weren’t expecting me. I’m usually the host of NPR’s Code Switch, but my good friend, Brittany Luse, is on vacation, so I’m filling in.
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PARKER: That’s a pun because this week we’re connecting the dots between injectable fillers, “Love Island” and ageism. I know, I know. How are all these things connected? We’re going to find out with Joan Summers, entertainment editor at Paper Magazine and host of the “Eating For Free” podcast, and Jessica DeFino, beauty reporter, advice columnist at The Guardian and writer of The Review Of Beauty Substack. Joan and Jessica, welcome to IT’S BEEN A MINUTE.
JESSICA DEFINO: Thanks so much for having us.
JOAN SUMMERS: Yeah. Thank you.
PARKER: OK. I love “Love Island.”
DEFINO: (Laughter).
PARKER: I redownloaded Twitter, aka X, so I could see what people are gabbing about on there while the season was going. And I saw a lot of conversation not about who was getting with who, but about which of these 20-somethings had had work done or not.
DEFINO: Yes.
PARKER: So who are people talking about and why?
DEFINO: I think the person who got the most attention for their plastic surgery this season is Vanna, a contestant who allegedly had plastic surgery. People are saying that this person may have had too much filler, perhaps a chin implant. There’s a lot of plastic surgeons even weighing in saying what she likely had done…
PARKER: Right.
DEFINO: …Or where it went wrong. And yeah, I think the big term that’s being used is just bad work.
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PARKER: OK. Vanna Einerson, this contestant, has said she got her lips and her breasts done but denied other procedures. And she also noted the speculation has made her feel worse about herself. And there’s somewhat a taboo against talking about other people’s plastic surgery or other people’s bodies in general, and for good reason. I mean, it’s rude and sometimes dehumanizing.
But workshopping your face is more popular than ever. Plastic surgery is on the rise. But minimally invasive procedures, like filler and Botox, are even more popular. These procedures have doubled over the past decade, with over 25 million performed a year. And I think some of us are more comfortable than ever making comments on these procedures.
It’s not just “Love Island” where we’re seeing people’s faces being discussed. We saw people speculate about Emma Stone, Kris Jenner and Brad Pitt recently. Like, I’m not saying myself that I know they’ve had work done. I’m saying there’s been speculation. And I’ve noticed there’s a difference in how, quote-unquote, “good work” gets talked about versus, quote-unquote, “bad work.”
But what’s the difference between the two? And can we talk about it when there’s money to be made off of new faces?
SUMMERS: Yeah. I mean, I think that good work is work that is subtle, invisible and conforms to the aesthetic standard that Hollywood puts on people. I think that bad work gets deemed confrontational or in your face or work that sort of demands you look at it. One that comes to mind is Lauren Sanchez Bezos allegedly has had plastic surgery.
You know, a lot of talk around her Vogue cover and her recent wedding is, you know, work that is very noticeable to people and something that I think they see as bad because of how noticeable it is in comparison to, let’s say, a Lindsay Lohan type, where, you know, the dream of that plastic surgery she has allegedly had done is that you can barely tell it happened.
DEFINO: What I would add to that is I think this construct of good work versus bad work really highlights the sort of ethical ideal, the moral implications of beauty. I mean, some prominent pop culture examples recently have been, you know, everyone’s praising Anne Hathaway and saying, this is how you age when you’re unproblematic, as if being a good person guarantees you aging well.
So it’s like these silly Disney-level moral judgments are really embedded in society, and we see that with the very clear moral language of good work and bad work. And I think that’s also part of why people get so invested in it. There’s, like, this layer of moralizing that happens.
SUMMERS: Yeah. And to want to be beautiful is bad and to be naturally beautiful is good.
DEFINO: Yes.
SUMMERS: And so, again, when we go back to the word confrontational, it’s like we can see that they have attempted beauty and failed at it in our eyes, which makes it bad. It is interesting that, you know, if you want beauty, it also has to be an invisible desire or a desire that you can keep hidden.
PARKER: As I said, there’s a lot of commentary about it. I do feel like, even though it can be rude to comment or speculate, there is some value in commenting, especially when celebrities, for example, deny having had work. There’s something there in the tension between not commenting on people’s appearances and also calling out that many celebrities make money off of selling you products to make you just as beautiful without being upfront about these alterations.
DEFINO: Yeah. I mean, I do think there’s a lot of tension there. I think there is a way to talk about what’s happening to our bodies and our desire for beauty right now without necessarily singling out any one particular celebrity because it does affect everybody. I like to refer to what’s happening as aesthetic inflation.
So it’s the normalization of injectables, surgery, extreme skin care routines, like, really over the past decade that shifts the baseline standard of beauty for all. This is the standard of beauty that we are judged against. It affects how we’re treated. It affects our job opportunities. And what aesthetic inflation does is it traps women and gender-nonconforming people, in particular, in a cycle of aesthetic labor that they can’t easily opt out of without facing, like, social or financial or political punishment.
So I think it’s really important to talk about these things in a way that’s not necessarily singling out one celebrity for getting bad work. Like, there are real political implications to beauty culture that we need to talk about, and I think it’s really dangerous to dismiss it as, like, oh, you can’t comment on somebody’s body. Like, these standards affect everybody.
PARKER: I think that some people are also being more open about what procedures they’ve had more generally. I’m thinking about Kylie Jenner recently telling a commentor on TikTok where and what specific procedure she got for breast implants. Like, is it better to be open?
DEFINO: I mean, I think openness is great. It’s good to know that the ideal that is circulating right now is not really attainable without extensive intervention. At the same time, understanding how someone has, like, artificially manipulated their face or body to meet this physical ideal doesn’t lessen the pressure that the average person feels to adhere to that impossible ideal.
So, like, there are limits to this idea of destigmatization or cosmetic transparency if the goal is some sort of liberation from beauty culture or to help people feel better in their bodies or to understand that this ideal is constructed and not natural. So while, yeah, honesty is great, I think we also have to think about some other ways of addressing beauty culture because, really, what’s happening is this cosmetic transparency is boosting the industry.
PARKER: Oh, boy.
DEFINO: And to bring it back to “Love Island,” I want to point out that I thought there was actually a very powerful, if disturbing, instance of cosmetic transparency that came out of this season, which was when cast member Cierra Ortega- some old social media posts of her surfaced while she was in the villa where she allegedly had used an anti-Asian slur to describe the benefits of the Botox brow lift that she had gotten to open her eyes.
PARKER: Oh.
DEFINO: And I feel like this is kind of an interesting way to think about cosmetic transparency, which is acknowledgment of how systems of discrimination often underwrite modern beauty standards, and these systems of power and these systems of oppression that influence what we find attractive or what becomes the standard of beauty. And I would love to see more of a focus on that as we’re talking about cosmetic transparency as a culture.
PARKER: Interesting. So there are lots of reasons to get surgery or filler or Botox or whatever, maybe because you just want to, maybe as a way to deal with gender dysphoria, maybe as a way to achieve a certain aesthetic goal which could help you professionally. But I do wonder, what does it mean that getting procedures, even minimally invasive ones, is becoming more common? Like, how do we talk about that?
DEFINO: When I talk about it, I try not to necessarily focus on personal choice and ask, instead, why are so many people deciding to make these very similar personal choices? And underlying that is personal preferences are shaped by the politics of the culture that we live in. And so, you know, I think, of course, a lot of women are preferring to look younger right now.
I wouldn’t necessarily call that a personal preference so much as, like, a logical reaction to existing in, like, a deeply ageist, sexist society. So, personally, I’m more interested in highlighting those conditions that lead to these choices, rather than praising or policing any individual person’s choice regarding cosmetic surgery. I think there’s a lot more to look at underneath that.
SUMMERS: Yeah. As someone with what could probably be described as extensive plastic surgery work – I’ve had breast augmentation and body contouring and neck liposuction. I mean, I could go through the rolodex. I think that we live in a culture that hyper-focuses on individual choice and ascribing good or bad politics to what aesthetics might mean for us and focuses way less on the people that enrich themselves off of these procedures and oftentimes are not always honest about what they might do to you long term, whether that’s liposuction scars, whether that’s breast augmentation illness from having implants and silicone, whether that’s the effect of Juvederm on your face after repeat injections over a long period of time. The surgeons themselves make so much money off of these procedures. I find that to be much more troubling than necessarily the idea that a bunch of young, 20-year-old women are getting the procedures in the first place.
PARKER: We’re obviously not in the room with providers and don’t know what they’re saying to patients. But we’ve seen some reporting about some patients having adverse reactions and saying they were totally surprised by some of the side effects.
DEFINO: Completely. And I would also add to that, like, besides the possible, like, physical harms or risks of, like, surgeries, injectibles or even topical products, there are so many mental health consequences to consider as well. We have so many studies, so much data, that shows us that beauty standards are associated with appearance-related anxiety, depression, disordered eating.
You know, we get them for a confidence boost. But what are the long-term consequences of getting your confidence or your self-esteem from an injectable that you have to keep getting and getting and getting, or a surgery that may go wrong? You know, there’s so much more to think about in terms of the consequences of beauty culture.
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PARKER: Joan, Jessica, thank you so much. I’ve learned so much. Now I would like to teach you a little something with a game. Can you stick around?
DEFINO: Yes.
SUMMERS: Absolutely.
PARKER: We’ll be right back with one of Brittany’s favorite games called But Did You Know? Stick around.
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PARKER: All right, all right. We’re going to play a little game I like to call But Did You Know? Here’s how it works. I’m going to share some trivia about a very relevant topic, but don’t worry. It’s all multiple choice. The first person to say the right answer gets a point. Person with the most points wins. Ready?
SUMMERS: Ready.
DEFINO: I think so.
PARKER: OK. This is a trivia game about where beauty terms were popularized, all right? So first question, who first printed the term crow’s feet as a description of wrinkles around the eyes? Was it A, Italian poet Dante Alighieri; B, English poet Geoffrey Chaucer; Or C, French poet Arthur Rimbaud?
DEFINO: I’m just going to guess B.
SUMMERS: I kind of want to go with B, too. I mean, Chaucer is kind of hateful towards women, so I’m imagining it was probably him.
PARKER: (Laughter).
DEFINO: Exactly.
PARKER: The answer is B, Chaucer.
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DEFINO: Woo.
PARKER: But it wasn’t in a derogatory sense, OK? The line in the poem “Troilus And Cressida” is, so long may you live and just as proud till the crow’s feet grow under your eye. And send for a mirror, then, for you to pry in, where you may see your face tomorrow.
DEFINO: That’s beautiful.
SUMMERS: I don’t give him enough credit. I apologize to the very dead Chaucer.
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PARKER: OK, question two. Vogue was likely the first English-language publication to publish a story about cellulite. When were American women introduced to the concept? Was it A, 1922; B, 1968; Or C, 1991?
SUMMERS: I think it was probably 1922 because things were getting shorter. That’s my imagination.
DEFINO: I’m going to say ’68 for the same reason, maybe.
PARKER: The answer is B, 1968.
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SUMMERS: Ooh.
PARKER: It was introduced as a, quote-unquote, “disease” one could get diagnosed with.
DEFINO: Oof.
PARKER: Interestingly, French women had been freaked out about this since the 1930s.
DEFINO: The beauty industry always comes in with something to make them self-conscious about.
SUMMERS: Yeah.
PARKER: OK, last question. The term muffin top as a pejorative for a little belly was popularized in the early aughts, but what popularized the concept of the muffin top as a distinctly different section of the muffin from its base? Was it A, “Seinfeld;” B, “The Simpsons;” C, “The Brady Bunch”?
DEFINO: This is “Seinfeld” (laughter).
SUMMERS: Yeah. It’s definitely “Seinfeld.”
PARKER: (Laughter) You’re both right. The answer is “Seinfeld.”
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DEFINO: Yes (laughter).
SUMMERS: Yeah. I think I remember this episode, too.
PARKER: (Laughter).
SUMMERS: That’s why I said it.
PARKER: In “Seinfeld,” in their 1997 episode “The Muffin Tops,” Elaine advises her boss to sell only the top of muffins at his store, Top Of The Muffin To You.
DEFINO: (Laughter).
PARKER: All right. That’s it for But Did You Know? for this week. Jessica, congratulations to Jessica.
SUMMERS: Congrats.
DEFINO: Thank you. Thank you so much (laughter).
PARKER: And, Joan, Jessica, thank you so much for joining me today.
SUMMERS: Of course.
DEFINO: Thank you.
PARKER: That was Joan Summers, entertainment editor of Paper Magazine and host of the “Eating For Free” podcast, and Jessica DeFino, beauty reporter, advice columnist at The Guardian and writer of The Review Of Beauty Substack.
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PARKER: This episode was produced by…
LIAM MCBAIN, BYLINE: Liam McBain.
LENNON SHERBURNE, BYLINE: Lennon Sherburne.
PARKER: It was edited by…
NEENA PATHAK, BYLINE: Neena Pathak.
PARKER: Our supervising producer is…
BARTON GIRDWOOD, BYLINE: Barton Girdwood.
PARKER: Our executive producer is…
VERALYN WILLIAMS, BYLINE: Veralyn Williams.
PARKER: Our VP of programming is…
YOLANDA SANGWENI, BYLINE: Yolanda Sangweni.
PARKER: All right. That’s all for this week. I’m B.A. Parker, and you can find me over at NPR’s Code Switch podcast. Brittany’s on vacation, and she’ll be back next week. Thanks for having me in your ears this week. Take care.
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