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TRANSCRIPT:
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Luis Hernandez: On Nov. 5, Rhode Island voters will have the opportunity to weigh in on five statewide ballot questions. In the weeks leading up to Election Day, we’ll be covering each of those questions in-depth. This time, we focus on question one: “Shall there be a convention to amend or revise the Rhode Island Constitution?” Proponents from different ends of the political spectrum say voters should be given the opportunity to amend the constitution – but a coalition led by ACLU Rhode Island, unions and women’s advocacy groups fears a convention could threaten civil rights protections. Joining me now is John Marion, executive director of nonprofit government watchdog organization Common Cause Rhode Island. John, thank you so much for the time.
John Marion: Oh, thanks for having me.
Hernandez: Also joining us is Providence Journal reporter Patrick Anderson. Patrick, great to see you again.
Patrick Anderson: Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Hernandez: John, I want to start with you. Just briefly, explain to us how a constitutional convention works, how a proposed change to the state constitution actually becomes official.
Marion: Yeah, sure. So in Rhode Island, there are two ways to amend the constitution. The typical way is that the General Assembly puts a question on the ballot and then voters have to approve it. That’s happened repeatedly over the years. And there’s this second method, which is to have a convention of delegates, and then the delegates can put questions on the ballot and voters can either vote them up or down. The delegates are elected by people, by voters in the state. They’re elected according to state representative districts, and they would meet, they would debate issues, and then they would vote to put questions before the voters. The last one was 1986, which was the last full convention that any state has had in the United States. They used to be very popular in the 1950s and 60s. In fact, Rhode Island, I believe, had three in the 1950s alone, as well as one in the 1960s and one in the 1970s, but we haven’t had any since 1986.
Hernandez: Patrick, who are some of the proponents of a constitutional convention and why do they say it should happen?
Anderson: Well, there are proponents across the ideological spectrum, but the biggest divide breaks down among folks who like the current political system and structure as it is versus those who want something bigger to change it, something different that would allow more sweeping changes. So you have a lot of the unions and a lot of the legislature itself arguing against the convention, for the most part, because the system works for them. They have things set up. Politics operates as it does. And then you have some folks with either a particular issue that has failed to gain traction over the years, or with more out-there ideas, looking at a convention as a way to do something different, shake up the system.
Hernandez: So I’m wondering, those who are against having it, is there anything in particular they’re afraid of? Or is it just this general idea, as you’re saying, that we got everything the way we have it, we like it, let’s keep it that way. Is there something specific?
Anderson: Well, each group and kind of interest group has probably their own deepest, darkest fears of what could happen. But in general, it’s more a fear of the unknown. So there is just a concern that something unexpected could happen that you don’t know what would emerge from it, whether it would be left, right, or just weird.
Marion: Yeah, I would add, too, substantively, the last couple of decades we’ve seen a lot of gains in civil rights and civil liberties in the state. There was the big, over a decade ago, push for marriage equality, and more recently, the effort to codify Roe v. Wade before it was overturned by the Supreme Court into state law. I think there’s a real fear that a lot of the gains that were made in the last 15 years or so, particularly with a more conservative U.S. Supreme Court maybe lowering the floor on civil rights and liberties, that those gains could be lost in Rhode Island.
Hernandez: Patrick, let me just ask, the erosion of rights. How big of it this time around is because of abortion?
Anderson: The probability that, even if there was a convention, that there would be a change to the constitution on abortion that came out of it, I think, is pretty slim. I think the real question right now is whether the pro-constitutional convention advocates will come forward, get together, or even whether there will be an individual who will spend a lot of money, run TV ads right at the end with a pro-constitutional convention argument. We haven’t seen any sign of it yet, but you don’t know until the very end. That’s been the main argument that the anti-convention groups have put forward, that outside money from an individual or a particular interest group could come in at the last minute and warp the outcome.
Hernandez: John, I wanted to go back to that ‘86 convention and what happened. What was the outcome?
Marion: So they put 14 questions on the ballot. They took up 322 different issues and condensed them down to 14 questions they put on the ballot. Eight of those questions passed – things like creating a state ethics commission, changing how bail is issued in the state, and then six things failed. One of the things that failed was, as Patrick mentioned, an amendment that was called a “paramount right to life” amendment. So it was an anti-abortion amendment. It went down by a two-to-one margin. If you look at the vote totals, it’s pretty fascinating. It had by far more people vote on that question than the other 13 questions that were on the ballot. So that was sort of the headline issue in 1986.
Hernandez: Briefly John, if the ballot question is approved and Rhode Islanders opt for a convention, exactly what happens next?
Marion: Yeah. So the constitution requires then the General Assembly to pass a law in the next session – so that would be in the first half of 2025 – setting out the election of delegates. And then from there, it’s pretty much up to the General Assembly. So they could call for a nonpartisan election. That’s what they did in 1985. They called for a nonpartisan election that November. But they could call for a partisan election. They could have a primary based on our experience in the 80s as a state. It was a nonpartisan single-round election, special election in November of 1985, super low turnout affair, less than a hundred thousand voters, but lots of candidates, an average of about five candidates per district. Then they had the convention. It happened in the first half of 1986. They had public hearings around the state, and then they had about 10 plenary sessions where they met as a hundred delegates and debated the issues and came out with those 14 ballot questions.
Hernandez: Patrick, anything else you want to add on this issue? What are you thinking about as we go into November?
Anderson: Yeah, I think it would be a little bit of a circus if it was approved, just because this hasn’t happened in such a long time. And there are all kinds of just practical questions. Do you pay the delegates to it? Where do you meet? The last time they did this, I believe they ended up running out of money and there were all kinds of complaints to the labor department from the staff of the convention. When you think of how big an operation the legislature is and how expensive and how difficult things are to kind of get off the ground these days, it could be a real operational mess.
Hernandez: He is Patrick Anderson of the Providence Journal. I also spoke with John Marion, executive director of Common Cause Rhode Island. Gentlemen, I appreciate the time. Thank you.
Marion: Thanks for having us.
Anderson: Thanks, Luis.
Election 2024 coverage by The Public’s Radio is sponsored in part by Ascent Audiology & Hearing, Providence Picture Frame and Rustigian Rugs. Find more of our elections coverage at thepublicsradio.org/2024elections.
