Cunha is the top federal prosecutor in the state, and his office has enormous power. After being nominated by President Biden in 2021, Cunha has pursued federal prosecutors’ standard approach in zeroing in on crimes involving drugs, fraud, guns, and violence. But these are not normal times. If Donald Trump retakes the White House in November, he is expected to remake the Justice Department, and Trump says he’d consider pardoning people who rioted at the capitol on January sixth. So what’s it like pursuing the rule of law in the time of Trump? And how much difference can federal officials make in improving the lives of vulnerable kids? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with U.S. Attorney for Rhode Island Zachary Cunha.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha: Thanks for having me.
Ian Donnis: Let’s start with the Washington Bridge, a favorite topic of Rhode Islanders. The U. S. Justice Department is examining possible false claims for services or use of federal dollars related to the bridge. What is the status of that investigation?
Cunha: Well, I want to be careful how I answer that. I think there’s been some public reporting that individuals have received civil investigative demands under the False Claims Act. I think there have actually been images of those demands that have wound up in the press. And I’m not going to deny that those are authentic, but my ability to talk about any ongoing federal investigation is limited as a matter of longstanding department policy.
What I will tell you, and I think it’s important for the public to understand, you mentioned the False Claims Act. Under that particular statute, what the federal government looks at, as is often the case in a federal investigation, the federal government is looking at a relatively narrow issue. Whether the government was billed for or paid for something that it didn’t get. So we’re not conducting some sort of wide ranging review into the engineering of a particular situation or whether something was well managed. We’re looking at one discrete particular issue.
Ian Donnis: Okay, well, let’s switch gears. During a news conference earlier this month, you said the state has routinely and unnecessarily segregated children with mental health or developmental disabilities at Bradley Hospital. These children are under the aegis of the State Department of Children, Youth and Families. Are you satisfied with the state’s response to date?
Cunha: Well, that’s a tragic case, and the situation involving those kids is absolutely heartbreaking, and that’s one of the reasons why we decided to move forward. What I can tell you at this point is we’ve issued our letter of findings, the state has reached out and has engaged with us and indicated an interest in discussing a potential resolution, and those confidential conversations are ongoing, and we’ll see where those lead.
Ian Donnis: There have been a lot of troubling and familiar issues involving DCYF for many years. Why does it take the involvement of your office, bringing to bear the power of the federal government to get the state to seemingly take more notice?
Cunha: Well, I can’t speak to sort of long term institutional issues at DCYF. What I can tell you is, we have a particular focus under Title II of the ADA about whether the rights, the civil rights of these kids are being violated, and we conducted a multi-year investigation and concluded that they were, and when we find things like that, we have no choice but to step in.
Ian Donnis: As you say, the parameters in this case are relatively narrow. Is there a role for your office or the federal government to play in these broader issues involving the care of vulnerable children in Rhode Island?
Cunha: Again, I’m not going to comment on the scope or extent of any non-public investigation. All I’ll say is if there is a federal civil rights angle that’s brought to our attention, we investigate it.
Ian Donnis: There’s an old saying that people are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. I’m sure you’ve heard that one.
Cunha: I think that’s Ben Franklin.
Ian Donnis: Right, we live in a time, nonetheless, when a lot of people, possibly a third of Republicans according to some polls, believe Donald Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was stolen. What happens to the rule of law when millions of Americans cannot agree on basic facts?
Cunha: Well, I want to start by saying my job is not a political one. I’m a political appointee, but you don’t do the job of a prosecutor from a, through a political lens if you’re going to do it right. And I think it’s critically important that we have engaged, informed citizens.
I’ll tell you that despite what I do for a living every day, I’m actually an optimist. I was down in Narragansett a few weeks ago with some kids who had taken part in a C-SPAN documentary series. And the extent to which these kids were engaged, informed and optimistic about their ability to participate in the system and effect change was inspiring. So, I think there’s a lot to be hopeful out there. There’s also a lot that’s of concern. We try and address that in a lot of different ways. We have an initiative that my office has been participating in called United Against Hate, where we go out into the community and we talk to different groups, whether it’s religious groups, community groups, civic organizations, about the corrosive effect of hatred and prejudice in communities and what we as a community can do and what we as federal law enforcement can and can’t do to combat those things.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with Rhode Island’s top federal prosecutor, U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha. You say you view your job and your mission as maximizing public safety. We know how violent crime in the United States has generally trended down since the advent of the nine millimeter pistol, the crack epidemic and a large demographic group of young men and from the 80s into the 90s caused a massive spike in violent crime. Nonetheless, many people seem to have a perception or a belief that crime is really bad in many places. What are your thoughts on that disparity?
Cunha: Well, you know, two thoughts. First of all, we can talk about statistics. Every violent crime involves a victim and the impact on those victims can’t be overstated. Statistically, looking locally, I think the Providence Police Department, as an example, is doing a fantastic job dealing with violent crime. If you look at the numbers of Homicides this year, they’re lower than they were last year. The number of gun crimes this year is lower than they were last year. I think we’re currently at 23 down from 41 last year. And our goal as a federal law enforcement partner, which is, again, we’re not the primary Prosecutor for most gun crime. That’s the state. But our goal is how can we help? How can we help the Providence police department hold those gains and continue to drive those numbers in the right direction?
Ian Donnis: Your counterpart in Massachusetts acting U.S. Attorney Joshua Levy has made it clear that people who make violent online threats could face prosecution. What level of that activity are you seeing in Rhode Island?
Cunha: Well, again, we address that in a couple ways. One is our outreach efforts to educate people about what the standard is for a federal prosecution of a violent extremist threat. And two, we work very closely with the FBI to assess those threats if and when they’re made to see if they meet the threshold for federal prosecution. And we’ve brought those cases in appropriate instances.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned efforts by your office to discourage hate. We see nonetheless how members of a white supremacist group visited Cumberland in February and other hate groups have dropped flyers in Rhode Island towns in previous years. What level of concern do you have about the activity of these groups? Individuals and their attempt to organize online.
Cunha: Well, obviously any expression of hatred, particularly against a particular minority group, whether it’s racial, religious or otherwise, is deeply concerning. And that’s part of the reason we’re out in the community, educating people about what they can do in these instances. There are some instances where that conduct may violate state law, but may not rise to the level of. a crime that can be prosecuted federally and that’s part of our educational effort, but it’s an issue that we watch very closely because we don’t want to see that take for the route in our community.
Ian Donnis: A bill regulating the so called safe storage of guns appears on track to become law in Rhode Island this year after many years of effort by supporters. Supporters point to how a lot of gun deaths involve. Suicide is a leading cause of many gun deaths. Opponents say they fear that if their gun is locked up, they might not be able to defend themselves if someone breaks into their home in the middle of the night. Is that really a legitimate concern that burglars are likely to be breaking into houses when people are home in the middle of the night?
Cunha: Well, it’s not appropriate for me to comment on a pending state legislative matter. I can tell you federally what we’re focused on are illegal use of firearms, whether it’s Glock switches that turn semi automatic weapons into machine guns or people who are in possession of firearms who are legally prohibited from doing that. That’s our primary focus.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of those switches and the proliferation of ghost guns, which are made with untraceable parts with parts sent through the mail or the post, what kind of challenges does this pose for law enforcement?
Cunha: It poses huge challenges for law enforcement. I mean, the first and most practical is there are so many settings in which law enforcement is interacting with a potential suspect where they’re potentially armed in a way that they might not have been years ago because these guns are so readily available. And, there’s a very big difference between facing somebody who has a semi automatic pistol and someone who’s effectively carrying a machine gun. So that’s concern number one. And the second is just generally the proliferation of these weapons in our communities and the damage that they can do.
Ian Donnis: There are tons of guns in America. What can be done with the proliferation of these parts that make it easier to increase the fire of guns and to have more untraceable guns?
Cunha: Well, I mean, that’s a problem that Involves a lot of different constituencies and trying to respond to it from our perspective. We try and prosecute some of those cases. I mean, for example, that little device that converts a semi automatic into a fully automatic weapon, that basically qualifies as a machine gun under federal law. So that is something that we prosecute so that we hopefully take those guns off the street and send the message that if you carry one of these, you’re going to face a federal prosecution.
Ian Donnis: Some of your predecessors as U. S. Attorney have gone into politics. There’s former, the late former governor Lincoln Almond, of course, Rhode Island’s attorney general, Peter Nerona is your immediate predecessor. Does politics offer any interest for you?
Cunha: Ian, my only focus is doing the job that I’ve been appointed to do. I feel completely blessed to have the chance to do this job every day, and I hope I have a good bit of time yet to do it. I feel like we’re doing great work, we’re making good progress, and we’re heading in the right direction.
Ian Donnis: If President, if former President Trump wins in November, you will be out of a job. Have you been increasing the closing of your cases due to the looming presidential election?
Cunha: We move our cases on their merits and on their timeline. That’s the only thing that I’m focused on.
Ian Donnis: And critics say that regulatory capture is a serious issue, that the Sacklers of Purdue Pharma were able to essentially get their way with the Food and Drug Administration. You’ve prosecuted healthcare fraud in the past. What can be done about regulatory capture?
Cunha: Well, that’s one of the reasons that we’ve devoted as many resources as we have to things like complex healthcare fraud and white collar enforcement, because that’s one of the areas where the federal government taking effective and decisive action can really change corporate culture. And I’ve seen it in the healthcare fraud arena. In terms of the way that drugs are marketed and pharmaceutical representatives are compensated. Over time, we’ve actually made change in the way that the industry does business, and we continue to try and do that all the time, in the opioid space and otherwise.
Ian Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us, Rodon, U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha.
Cunha: Thanks for having me.
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When the well-known Boston chef Jasper White recently died at age 69, he was widely remembered for raising the profile of the food and flavors of New England. White ran his own restaurant for years in the North End of Boston and later became known for his Summer Shack seafood venues. But the obits and tributes mostly did not mention how White got his start cooking in Providence. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at ThePublicsRadio.org/TGIF and on what used to be known as Twitter at IanDon.
That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
