All this comes as legislators will wrestle with a big budget deficit and thorny issues including housing, healthcare and the economy. Pearson and his supporters say they were motivated by how Ruggerio, now 76, missed large parts of the last session due to various health issues. But was it a smart play to pursue the challenge against Rhode Island’s longest-serving lawmaker, and will that hurt the Senate’s ability to get things done in the new session?
This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with the outgoing majority leader in the Rhode Island Senate, Ryan Pearson.
TRANSCRIPT
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: During a Senate caucus in November, you lost a vote challenging Dominic Ruggerio for the presidency of the Senate. You cited concerns about the president’s health and how he’d been absent for a large part of the last session. Nonetheless, you lost the vote. Some of the senators who supported you are expected to lose committee chairmanships because that’s the way the legislature works. Given all this, was it worth it for you to pursue that challenge?
State Sen. Ryan Pearson: I think what’s most important is for the Rhode Island people to know that they have a functioning Senate that is able to do the job that we were elected to do. And so yes, I do think it was worth it. I think it’s important for us to make a stand and also clearly delineate the issues that are important for us to work on which we did. The folks that we put together and put a team together on, we laid out our priorities, we laid out education and healthcare and housing and a series of other issues.
I think it’s important for us to say what we’re going to do. Unfortunately that was not done by the Senate president and laying out any policy issues or priorities that they wanted to work on for the upcoming session. And, you know, listen, as the sitting majority leader I have the catbird seat and I’ve had the catbird seat to see the functioning of the Senate and of the institution and we have not been functioning at full speed. And it’s really important for Rhode Islanders to know that their Senate is doing that. We have a lot of issues to deal with, not only here at home in Rhode Island, but also for, you know, what we could be seeing as a rambunctious few years in Washington and the people of Rhode Island need a Senate that is fully functioning and moving to go.
You mentioned, and the Senate President has said that he’s gonna be open more communicative and also there’d be no retribution, and so while, you know, you mentioned that sometimes people do lose positions of their chairmanships, the president has said to other media outlets on the record that there would be no retribution, and I certainly hope that he upholds that commitment.
Donnis: When you talk about the need for a functioning state senate, how do you see the outlook? Do you take President Ruggerio at his word now that he’s recovering and in better health and will be more present this year and that the kind of concerns that led you to seek the presidency have been addressed?
Pearson: I certainly hope so, Ian. I think the proof is going to be in the pudding. We’re going to be back next week. I’m looking forward to learning what the president’s plans are. He’s not communicated to the senators at this point, if we’re going to meet one day a week like we had been. We had a lot of complaints about that. Or if we were going to be meeting more often who the chairs are going to be, what his priorities are, the policies, none of that has been communicated to the members of the Senate. And there really hasn’t been a lot of communication either. So, I don’t know. I think we’re going to have to see how this plays out as we head into next week.
Donnis: I’ve heard some chatter that John Fleming, the chief of staff for President Ruggerio, has been leading some of the communication with senators. Is that your experience and does that, is that a sign of concern for you?
Pearson: My conversations have all been with John Fleming and I think that’s what you’d find from many senators is that they’re not, you know, having direct conversations with the president. It’s all through his chief of staff.
Donnis: You were previously seen as the heir-apparent to become Senate president before a falling out last year between you and President Ruggerio. How do you plan to try and be your most effective self, given that you are now not on the top favorite list of the incoming Senate leadership?
Pearson: Yeah, I think, you know, listen, I was able to win unanimous support of the Democratic Caucus a few years ago to become the majority leader that was after years of service in the chamber, having served as finance chair and now having served as majority leader. I still believe I bring an incredible amount of experience and also relationships to the role. And I do intend to run for Senate president again, and I do believe that that vote will come. And the best thing that I can do in the meantime is work to serve the interest of my constituents, working on the issues that I told them that I would when I sought re-election this year, and continue to work with my colleagues, help them in any way that I can continue to build on those relationships. I think in the end, you know, leadership elections come and go, and that’s okay but I’m focused fully on making sure we can get the job done and I can build the relationships with our colleagues.
Donnis: One more related question before we move on to discuss some issues. President Ruggerio turned 76 last month. Do you expect this to be his last term as a member of the Senate?
Pearson: You would have to ask him. He had told me a couple of times over the last two years that he was not going to run again this time and he did run again. So you know, I’m not sure exactly what his current thinking is. But we’ll have to see what he does.
Donnis: Senator Ryan Pearson, one of the big issues we’re watching in 2025 is whether Hasbro decides to leave Rhode Island. Do you think this signifies a failure by the state to ensure that the company’s plans included staying here?
Pearson: Listen, I think, you know, Hasbro’s decision, as with any business’s decision is a multifaceted one that has to do with Rhode Island’s business climate, our tax climate, labor force issues job training, those types of things, transportation issues. So I think it’s a very complex dynamic that goes into any company’s decision to decide to locate to Rhode Island or stay in Rhode Island. I do think that as state leaders, we need to be proactive, talking with all the companies throughout Rhode Island, especially the top employers in the state to make sure the state is always meeting their needs and making sure that they never even think about leaving Rhode Island. And so I do think we need to do more of that. And I think we need to do everything we can to retain Hasbro. But it is something that we need leaders fully present to be in the room for and to be working on and certainly as Senate president, that would be something I would be. I would be in the room. I’d be talking to that CEO and working to make sure we can retain them here in Rhode Island.
Donnis: Speaking of being proactive, we see some new efforts in terms of cyber technology, the blue economy, but Rhode Island’s economy has been treading water for many years. It can be a great state, but there are not enough good jobs for people who are looking to move up. You’ve cited concern about this. What do you think the state needs to do differently to improve its economy?
Pearson: Yeah, I think it’s really around a few different things, honestly. I think a lot of things circle around in the same way. Number one is I think we have to be making sure that we have really great job training and education resources. The number one reason companies are going to move to a state or leave a state is can they find the talent? That is absolutely critical and so we have to make sure that we’re focusing big on education and job training. The second would really be, do we have the rest of the infrastructure it needs to make a community and a state a great place to do business? That is everything from healthcare, transportation, our infrastructure. Those are all things that we really need to be working on, which is a lot of the work that we’ve done in the Senate over the last several years especially focusing on healthcare. but those are the types of things that we need to continue to do. Rhode Island is not dissimilar from many other states where we have population that’s up and down, birth rates are going down. We need to be working on these issues and investing in the state for the future and we, this is not the time to take the foot off the gas. We need to be putting our foot on.
Donnis: Senator Pearson, I’m sure you’re aware the state faces a roughly $330 million deficit for the fiscal year starting July 1st. Do you think higher taxes on affluent Rhode Islanders should be part of the response to generate more state revenue?
Pearson: I do think it’s something we should look at. I mean, I’m a firm believer that our tax policies have to be competitive with other states, I do think for many years that was the case at our current rates. What we have seen is we have seen other states take a more progressive tax approach especially for high income earners and I think it’s time that we do the same. One thing I would say, though, is that, yes, we do have a budget deficit facing Rhode Island in the next year. This is gonna be something new that many members of the House or Senate haven’t gone through yet, if they have only been in for the last couple terms. But this is not something new for those of us that have been there for a little bit. And I want to be really clear that I don’t believe that this budget is going to be overly difficult or one that we need to be overly concerned about. I think these deficits happen. The Rhode Island economy is still doing well. Rhode Island tax revenues are doing well and are going up. so the state has more money next year than we do this year. That is not the worst situation to be in and now are our expenses growing quickly? Yes, they are. And we need to be making sure we can balance that off. But I want to be clear to Rhode Islanders and Rhode Island businesses that we should not be concerned about the state’s budget deficit. It’s one that will be well managed and able to be done without dramatic or drastic changes.
Donnis: It’s déjà vu all over again, as Yogi Berra said. On health care, you were among a number of senators who raised their focus on that issue in the last year, and introduced a number of bills. How much progress do you think was made and is our, is the General Assembly bringing enough urgency on the necessary changes on health care?
Pearson: Not enough change was achieved in the last session, Ian. That’s probably my biggest disappointment about last year. That we had worked, I give Senator Lauria, Senator DiMario, Senator Valverde, Chairman Miller, Senator Ujifusa, all members of the Senate Health Committee who really did a ton of work on a package of bills to make sure that we can move our state’s healthcare system forward. It is no secret to Rhode Islanders, getting access to care, getting access to affordable care are not always the easiest things to do. It’s also bad for business, for when businesses are seeing their healthcare costs rise. So we put forward a series of pieces of legislation to address that. Most notably from a state perspective, we need more investment in Medicaid. That’s not only serving the individuals who are on Medicaid, but the more funding we’re providing in Medicaid and making it so that those individuals are not subsidized by private insurance in the system makes it a more competitive market for businesses and individuals. And so we need to continue that work, that pressure needs to remain on. We need to do, again, job training on primary care and physicians. That needs to happen. All of these things are absolutely critical to ensure we have a strong healthcare system, which ultimately allows a strong economy.
Donnis: President Ruggerio has made a change by signaling that he may be receptive to a vote on a bill banning new sales of semi-automatic rifles. Why do you think he has changed his position on that, or seemingly changed it?
Pearson: Yeah, I did see that in the press, that he said that was his former position, that he was against it. You know, I honestly am not sure my supposition may be that the governor indicated he was gonna put it in his budget, which is an interesting you know, strategy there on behalf of the governor. And I think the president may be looking to avoid a direct confrontation with the governor, and that may be why he’s done that, but I’m honestly not sure of his position. I remain in support of that ban. I have for a long time and I think it’s something long, long overdue.
Donnis: Finally, you represent Cumberland, the hometown of Governor McKee. I wonder if you think he’s the best choice for governor in 2026.
Pearson: Well, we’ll have to see if he’s running again would be the first question. This is, you know, I know a second full term, but this really is a second term. And, I think it’s one of those things he’s going to have to make the decision on at that point in time. I do think there’s something to be said around you know, he’s going to be a, not a younger man at that point in time. And so I do think it’s something to be said around making sure that we, continue to make sure our leaders are a little bit younger and more open to change at that point in time.
Donnis: Senator Ryan Pearson, a Cumberland Democrat. Thank you so much for joining us.
Pearson: Thanks Ian.
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Former President Jimmy Carter, who died this week at age 100, served in the U.S. Navy. So did one of Carter’s predecessors, Richard Nixon, who got aviation training in Rhode Island as a young man. But that didn’t stop Nixon from moving the Navy’s Atlantic Destroyer fleet out of Newport — a move considered a debilitating blow to Rhode Island’s economy. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF politics column, posting around 4 this afternoon on Bluesky, Threads, Facebook, and at thepublicsradio.org/TGIF.
That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. Our editor is Alex Nunes. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
