Americans’ confidence in elections has been shaken in recent years — at least for *some*. Donald Trump’s false narrative about a stolen election in 2020 has led many of his supporters to doubt the integrity of the process. That’s despite evidence given by elections officials and even some members of Trump’s administration that the vote was free and fair. With a looming climax to the tight presidential race, the issue of election integrity is likely to surge front and center in the weeks ahead. As Rhode Island’s chief elections officer, Secretary of State Gregg Amore is on the frontlines of questions involving voting rights and fair elections. So what is he expecting? How should we combat lies and misinformation about elections? And if one man can popularize a phony narrative about the democratic process, what would it mean if that person regains the White House? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with Rhode Island Secretary of State Gregg Amore.
TRANSCRIPT:
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Secretary Amore: Thank you. Happy to be here.
Donnis: We are less than two weeks from the end of voting in the presidential election. What keeps you up at night about the presidential voting process in Rhode Island and elsewhere?
Amore: Yeah, I mean, I’m concerned generally about the narrative around the country. Not so much here in Rhode Island, but around the country in regard to voting processes and the misinformation around voting. When we know that these are the most scrutinized, most transparent elections in American history. And that elections administrators around the country are just doing their jobs, and they’re making sure that people have access and that the process is secure, safe, and open.
Donnis: Let’s delve into that a little bit more. The last time you were in, last December, I asked you about why so many Americans believe Donald Trump’s distortions and lies about the integrity of American elections. You called it unusual for a major American political figure to undermine confidence in the process. Let’s listen to part of what you said.
Amore (from December, 2023): And I think this is one of the most dangerous things, for the survival of our democracy that a major political figure is questioning what has been declared by his own administration, his own appointees, as the most secure election in American history.
Donnis: So there we have it, and now Trump is not just spreading this narrative, he could be returning to the White House. What are your concerns if that happens?
Amore: Yeah, my view has not changed. And I think one of the hallmarks of American exceptionalism has been that we have proceeded with elections and then proceeded with the peaceful transfer of power and both the losing candidate and the populace has accepted those results. And that has happened throughout American history until 2020 And so, you know, that’s dangerous and I still think that’s dangerous and it’s unfortunate because American democracy can only survive if our citizens are comfortable, and confident in the process. And there is no evidence to support the former president’s claims.
Donnis: If there is such basic disagreement about fundamental facts, what does that mean for the rule of law in America?
Amore: Yeah, I think one of the things that we are trying to do at the Department of State is talk to people where they are, answer questions respectfully, make sure that we’re not dismissing concerns and being as transparent as possible. I think the only way to overwhelm the misinformation is to continue to give good information, trusted information. And, over the course of time, I believe that will win out.
Donnis: We know that the Biden administration presided over a significant increase in unauthorized crossings at the Mexican border before clamping down on that this year. And although the pandemic was certainly a factor in inflation, it’s taken the administration many years to try to tamp down inflation. These are the two of the major issues animating Trump supporters. So I wonder what level of responsibility do Democrats bear for his competitive status in this election?
Amore: Yeah, I think on the inflation issue, I don’t blame President Trump for the job losses during the pandemic. And I don’t blame President Biden for worldwide inflation based on a pandemic. I think that’s, that’s more misinformation. In fact, the United States has recovered better. Our GDP is greater. Our employment is better. So I don’t agree with that. On the border, I think that’s a legitimate issue that most Americans can agree needs to be improved. There has to be a better process at the border for asylum. There has to be a better process to become an American citizen that does not include a 12 year wait. There has to be a pathway to citizenship. I think the compromise deal that was struck in the Senate was a good deal. We’re a 50-50 nation, divided closely in the legislature. So if you get a deal that incrementally improves things, you should take that deal. And we know that the former president did not want his party to take that deal.
Donnis: We see how former president Trump in a relatively short period of time, eroded trust in elections, the media and courts. You talk about the need to flood the zone with good information, but we seem to be in a time when there’s rampant conspiracies, theories and people that a significant number of Republicans or Trump supporters believe his false narrative. So how do we come back from this as a nation?
Amore: Yeah, what we’re doing at the Department of State is based on my background, and that is we’re doubling down on civic education. And talking about the foundational documents that bring us all together. The concepts in the Declaration of Independence, in the preamble to the Constitution, the consent of the governed, justice, all the things that we as Americans all agree on, and how government works. And part of that is compromise. And part of that is making sure we’re speaking to one another in a civil manner around all of these issues, respecting one another’s opinion. And then, you know, let the marketplace of ideas play out. And that should be how elections play out as well. And that’s a process. That’s a process. And we’ve had, we’ve had diminished confidence in government before throughout American history. The 1960s is a perfect example. We had the McCarthyism period where folks were divided. I’m confident in the resiliency of the nation.
Donnis: Americans will finish voting November 5th. When do you expect us to have some resolution about who is the winner of the presidential election?
Amore: It’s hard to say. It’s hard to say. I can’t predict because polling has been poor. Midterm polling predicted a red wave. It did not materialize. The Santos special election in New York predicted a razor close margin. The Democrat won easily. So it’s very difficult to predict. I think the closer it is, the longer it’s going to take to figure out who the winner is.
Donnis: Former Republican gubernatorial candidate Ken Block published a book this year. He had been hired by the Trump administration to try and document fraud. And his finding was that there was not the kind of fraud that would have tilted the election. But he did find that there are a lot of problems with the election process in many states. And he calls for a more singular approach to elections in America. What do you think of his critique?
Amore: Yeah, I think he’s right when he talks about information and transparency around information, in some states. He also says that Rhode Island does a very good job in regard to sharing that voter information. I agree with him on the idea of a national voter ID, and that’s not a physical ID. That’s like a social security number. I agree with him. I think that solves a lot of issues. I don’t think you’ll ever see that. One, constitutionally, elections are run by the states. And I think the Republican party is not in favor of a universal identification for voters for other reasons beyond voter integrity.
Donnis: The Democratic Party in Rhode Island opposes the ballot question, one that would create a constitutional convention. How do you come down on that?
Amore: So I have a job to do as Secretary of State, and the job we’re doing is presenting as much information as we can to the voters. And so our voter information guide provides a link to the report, and then you can go beyond that and watch the commissions hearings and listen to the concerns of the public in regard to what they think should change about the Rhode Island constitution. So that’s our job. That’s our primary job. I’ve already voted and I’ve already voted no. And I’m not sure that this system is, the constitutional convention system is appropriate for the day. In fact, it’s gone from most states, if not all states. I think we may have been the last state to hold one in 1986. I also think there are ways for us to change the constitution and you and I have voted on those constitutional changes without a constitutional convention.
Donnis: The General Assembly earlier this year decided against including a $60 million ballot question that would have borrowed money to help create a state archive. Instead, the legislature or the budget included $500,000 to study this concept. Is this another instance where Rhode Island is being kind of cheap about highlighting its history in a way that could help to promote tourism and help the economy?
Amore: Yeah. you know that I’ve said all along, we’re going to have to do this, right? And the longer we wait, the more expensive it gets. And I think that’s why the General Assembly did appropriate the half million dollars to do the study. And the study is about condensing the project and creating a more affordable project that can be expanded as needed in the future. And that’s what we’re engaged in right now is scaling down the original proposal so that we can have a space for historical content and for tourists and also to preserve these documents which is imperative. We don’t talk about that much, but that’s imperative. We’ve got about 4,000 boxes of Rhode Island documents offsite.
Donnis: The last time you were here in December, I asked you if you were committed to running for reelection in 2026 as Secretary of State. You said yes. More recently, The Globe reported that you might be open to running for governor under some circumstances. What changed?
Amore: Well, nothing’s changed. I think what the Globe reported was a piece of what I said. All of what I said was my intent is to run for Secretary of State, but I’m wise enough to know that you can’t be definitive about anything because I never imagined that I would be running for Secretary of State. But my intent is to seek re-election for this job. I enjoy the job. It’s an incredibly important job, and I think our team’s doing a good job. And so, my intent is to run for Secretary of State.
Donnis: As an East Providence resident, are you satisfied with the response by Governor McKee and RIDOT Director Peter Alviti on the Washington Bridge?
Amore: I think there’s a great deal of frustration. Anyone that lives on the East Bay is frustrated. Ironically, it’s easier to get across going west now than it was when the bridge was intact. But coming east is really difficult and it changes people’s lives. It’s an inconvenience and it’s a failure of government, okay? And I say that because that’s exactly what it is. It’s not necessarily a failure of the McKee administration, right? And the response, well, it’s been disjointed for sure, but I think the information is coming in in a disjointed way. So it’s hard for me not in that arena all the time, having all the documents in front of me, having taken place in those conversations to judge that, but it certainly is a failure of government that this bridge failed without warning and we’re in this predicament today.
Donnis: As a Red Sox fan, I have to congratulate you, a Yankees fan, on the Yankees first appearance in the World Series in 15 years, time during which the Red Sox have won two World Championships. What is your prediction?
Amore: Yeah, well, you started the last century well as well, and then it just collapsed. so we’ll see. My prediction is Yankees in six. I think it’ll be a great series. And you have all sorts of stars. So baseball will be highlighted, not just the Yankees and Dodgers.
Donnis: Secretary of State Greg Amore, thank you so much for joining us.
Amore: My pleasure.
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If Rhode Islanders want to get a sense of the pros and cons of creating an office of inspector general, all they need to do is look at the federal government. Glenn Fine spent 11 years as inspector general of the U.S. Department of Justice in the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. In a new book, he writes about his experience of trying to root out waste and fraud. You can read about that in my TGIF column posting around 4:00 this afternoon on what we used to call Twitter at IanDon and at the publics radio dot org. That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
This year’s elections coverage by The Public’s Radio is sponsored in part by Ascent Audiology & Hearing, Providence Picture Frame and Rustigian Rugs.
