Caldwell is a fierce supporter of new restrictions on guns. Her time in the General Assembly has coincided with a reduction in the number of pro-gun Democrats. As a result, a series of related measures have become law in recent years, including a House bill sponsored by Caldwell requiring the safe storage of firearms. So how does Caldwell respond to people who believe more laws are the wrong approach? What’s her view on what Democrats need to do differently to win over more working class voters? And can a prescription choice bill she sponsored overcome the monopolistic power of pharmacy benefit managers? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with state Representative Justine Caldwell.
This transcript was edited for time and clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
State Rep. Justine Caldwell: Thank you so much, Ian. So happy to be here.
Donnis: You were the House sponsor of a bill requiring the safe storage of guns. This bill was signed into law this year after more than 10 years of effort predating your time in the legislature. What difference do you believe it will make?
Caldwell: I believe it will make a huge difference. We have seen a growth, even here in Rhode Island, of gun deaths by accident, by suicide. Tragically, in Pawtucket, we have the Viens family, who folks may have seen up at the State House testifying, whose son was killed when their friend got an unsecured firearm and used it. So anything we can do to prevent accidents, to prevent suicides, is something I think is a really great way forward for Rhode Island, and I’m confident it will make a difference in the lives of Rhode Island families.
Donnis: It seems unlikely that police would go into the homes of gun owners without some other cause. So is it possible that many gun owners will flout this law and that it’s more of a symbolic measure?
Caldwell: Well, this law gives people an affirmative duty to store their guns safely. It only rises to the level of a crime if somebody accesses it who shouldn’t have access to a firearm and hurt somebody. And so that’s really what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to incentivize folks to store their firearms safely. The bill also had an educational component, which will require school districts to send out information and post information on their district websites about the importance of storing firearms safely, especially with children in the home.
Donnis: These types of gun issues are always very fiercely debated at the State House. Lots of people come out pro and con. Gun rights supporters tend to point to how Rhode Island has a very low rate of gun violence in opposing these measures. And they say that because criminals inherently don’t observe laws, the brunt of these laws falls on law-abiding gun owners. How do you respond to that argument?
Caldwell: Well, gun ownership requires some responsibility. Guns are dangerous weapons. People have a right to own them, and I believe in that right, but they have to do so responsibly. I think that, you know, making sure that we protect Rhode Island children and Rhode Island families as robustly as we can is our job in the General Assembly. We want to save people who we know are at risk from themselves. That’s why you see veterans communities come out so strongly in favor of safe storage laws. And to be clear, the majority of Rhode Islanders support these laws. The folks that you see at the State House, you know, are often the most passionate minority of loud voices against these gun safety measures. But we know that Rhode Islanders, regardless of party affiliation, mostly believe in not only a safe storage law and a ban on high-capacity magazines, but also what I hope will happen soon, a ban on assault weapons.
Donnis: During the signing ceremony for your safe storage bill in June, one of your former colleagues in the House of Representatives, Gregg Amore, who’s now Secretary of State, described how you have faced harassment and vicious emails for your advocacy on gun issues. You probably didn’t sign up for that when you first ran for the House. How do you process that kind of stuff?
Caldwell: It is very difficult. It’s very difficult to be the person that’s on the top of any high-profile bill that’s at the State House, not just the firearms legislation. But we have a great group of representatives at the State House with my colleagues who all support these bills, of course, Secretary Amore being one of them formerly, who was a huge help to me. And I think standing together, showing people that we absolutely are not gonna be intimidated in terms of backing down or not trying to move these bills forward is kind of how I decided to move forward with it. But of course, I don’t fault any of my colleagues, or any folks in the public who struggle with that because it can be a scary thing, especially with young children at home, but very sadly, you get used to it.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk about some other issues. We see how enthusiasm is surging among Democrats about Kamala Harris. There’s been a lot of fundraising, people signing up to volunteer. One tough issue for Democrats perhaps is the economy because of inflation and voters’ concerns about that. How do you think Vice President Harris should talk about the economy given those concerns?
Caldwell: Well, I am a huge supporter of Kamala Harris. She leads with joy and optimism and empathy, and that is something I think really we’re lacking in politics these days. And I think she can talk about it with her empathy, which is something we don’t see from Donald Trump and JD Vance. Like Kamala, I know what it’s like to see the rising costs at the supermarket, the rising costs of childcare, the rising costs of needs in schools, and all of that. And really, the Democratic Party is the party who wants to feed kids at school. They’re the party who wants to provide a strong education and childcare so women can go back to work. So I think when Kamala focuses on those issues and leads with the empathy that she has for American families that her message will resonate strongly with voters.
Donnis: We’re talking here with State Rep. Justine Caldwell, a Democrat from East Greenwich, and we see how some affluent Rhode Island towns, including East Greenwich and Barrington, used to be Republican strongholds, and now they tend to support Democrats. The situation is the opposite in Burrillville, used to be a Democrat town, now it supports Republicans. What do you make of this kind of ideological sorting and why are we seeing these changes take place?
Caldwell: Sure. Well, I don’t think we have voted a Republican into office in East Greenwich since 2016, since the term before I ran the first time. And I haven’t knocked on a lot of doors in Burrillville or Barrington, but I’ve knocked on a lot of doors in East Greenwich. And what I see there is voters and constituents who want politicians who tell them the truth, who are living in the same kind of reality that they’re living in, who care about quality public education, who, regardless of their party affiliation, don’t want to see their kids get shot in school. And really Republican or Democrat don’t find themselves represented by the repugnant, partisan rhetoric that Donald Trump has brought into our politics.
Donnis: One reason why people move to East Greenwich is because it has one of the best public school systems in the state. We’re talking here in Providence, where there’s been talk for decades about the vital need to improve public schools, but little has changed. From your perspective, and I believe you serve on the House Education Committee, what do you think needs to be done differently to make more progress?
Caldwell: Well, my kids are public school students in East Greenwich. I was a public school graduate in Warwick. And I do hear a lot on the House Education Committee, the focus is on Providence. We hear mostly about the Providence public schools. We hear about their needs. If I was a parent in Providence, I would not want to be waiting decades after my kids graduate from those schools to get results. Generally in education, I would like to see less of a focus on test scores. We obsess over test scores, we obsess over if we’re as good as Massachusetts in test scores, when really, test scores only show you a snapshot in time of a single student, and maybe they didn’t get enough sleep. Maybe they didn’t eat breakfast. Maybe, you know, they have a hard time sitting still for two hours. I would like to see more parent involvement in Providence, which I know is a big issue there from being on the Education Committee. And I’d like to see, we saw from our SurveyWorks, which is a survey of public school students and parents in Rhode Island, what issues there are, and mental health is a huge concern among students from their SurveyWorks answers. So statewide, I would like to see more funding and more of a focus on mental health supports in schools.
Donnis: Speaking of breakfast, one issue that you’ve championed is promoting the idea of universal free meals for public school students in Rhode Island. The current state budget includes an additional $800,000 to expand that, but the program is not universal. How would you respond to critics who say there are a lot of kids in towns like East Greenwich who they or their parents can certainly afford to pay, and that that is a reason to not have this be a universal program?
Caldwell: Well, public education is an equalizer, and I believe everything that happens inside a school should be an equalizer. Nobody really knows what the inner financial workings are of somebody else’s home. Just because parents have enough money to pay doesn’t mean that they will pay or provide their kids with a nutritious lunch. I think of it as correcting a historical wrong. We pay for buses, we pay for textbooks, no matter if families can afford them or they can get to school on their own. We know when it’s time to take our standardized testing, our RICAS, again, email from our superintendent and our principals the night before, saying make sure your student has a good breakfast before this test. They provide the students with snacks and drinks during the tests because they know, and educators know, and administrators know, that students perform only at their best when they’re full. And I think students, every student, should perform at their best every single day.
Donnis: One bill you sponsored this year, and I think in the past, was meant to protect patients from how prescribed drugs are administered and delivered. We know that pharmacy benefit managers have awesome power over the whole system. Can a bill such as the one you sponsored really be an effective counteraction to that?
Caldwell: Yes, I was very excited about this bill and here this was a huge team effort to get this bill over the finish line. I have to give kudos to Speaker Shekarchi who did not give up on this bill and every time I came back with him, he, you know, insisted that this entire team work together to get something over the finish line. This bill is about progress, the speaker is always about progress, so this was very exciting. When you think about a bill like this, which is complex and hard to follow if you’re not a health policy wonk in this area, you know, it helps cancer patients and it helps kids with rare diseases get the medicine they need, where they need it, and when they need it, when it’s most convenient for them. And it makes a small dent for these people, it makes a small dent in our healthcare system overall, but for these people, and we all know someone, right, who is going through cancer treatment sadly, and they’re already looking death over the shoulder. The last thing they need is to be on the phone with their pharmacy benefit managers, missing appointments because their medicine didn’t arrive in time, having to go to a pharmacy an hour away from them because they won’t deliver it to their nearby pharmacy. So I do believe this will make a very big difference in the lives of these patients in Rhode Island, but you’re right, it’s part of a smaller chipping away at the power of pharmacy benefit managers.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us. State Rep. Justine Caldwell, a Democrat from East Greenwich.
Caldwell: Thank you, Ian.
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Donald Trump hopes that voters’ anxiety about immigration and the border will help catapult him back into the White House. But it’s not just advocates for immigrants who call this approach misguided. Mainstream economists say immigrants are a vital part of the workforce and help population growth in a country with a declining birth rate. And here in Rhode Island, the state avoided losing a congressional seat in recent years due to growth in the local Latino population. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at thepublicsradio.org/TGIF and on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon. That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
