Claudine Schneider made history in 1980 when she became the first woman elected to Congress from Rhode Island. Forty-three years later, Ocean State voters still have not sent another woman to the U.S. House or Senate. But Schneider is still making news. She is one of six plaintiffs behind a lawsuit that knocked Donald Trump off the Colorado ballot last month. The top state court there ruled Trump engaged in insurrection by trying to overturn the 2020 election.
Whether the decision blocking Trump from the ballot stands will be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court, as part of a high-stakes election year. Why does Schneider think courts, and not voters, should decide this issue? What does she make of how the Republican Party has dramatically changed since she served as a GOP lawmaker during the Reagan era? And how about the struggles of Republicans here in Rhode Island, where the party holds just 14 of 113 legislative seats and is locked out of state and federal offices? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Claudine Schneider: Thank you. I am delighted to be with you, Ian, and having the opportunity to address my former constituents. I’m pretty enthused.
Ian Donnis: Claudia Schneider, how did you become one of the six plaintiffs in this lawsuit that knocked Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado?
Claudine Schneider: Well, in order to be a plaintiff, you had to be a Colorado voter, which I am. And I am also still registered as a Republican. And so, those were some of the criteria in order to be a plaintiff. The other plaintiffs, there are a total of six in all, four of them are Republicans, two happen to be independents. And what’s interesting is that of those six, five are women. Just FYI, Ian.
Ian Donnis: Good to know. Take us through your thought process. I’m sure you put thought into this. How did you come to the conclusion that the pros of pursuing this case would outweigh the cons?
Claudine Schneider: Well, the primary elements that were necessary to prove in this case were that number one, there was an insurrection in fact, and number two, that, Donald Trump participated in that insurrection, and number three, he did so while he was an officer of the United States government, and so to me, those seemed pretty self evident.
And I will admit, while in the courtroom, I was absolutely blown away by the expert witnesses that our team had pulled in. We had two of the policemen who had been involved in the insurrection, so it wasn’t just video of what occurred, but there was live testimony from these individuals who escaped with their lives. And we have to remember, there were five people that died during that insurrection. And 140 of those police officers were injured. So this was quite an unprecedented, horrific occurrence.
Ian Donnis: How do you respond to the view of some people that the way for Donald Trump to be rejected or elected is by voters and that although there is a legal mechanism for the path that you and your co plaintiffs pursued, that it’s anti democratic to deny someone to be on the ballot?
Claudine Schneider: Okay, well, I have to, I have to chuckle at that because there’s nothing more undemocratic than failing to enforce the United States Constitution, which is the bedrock of our democracy. And the other thing is, you know, yes, some people have said the voters should decide, but let’s look at the facts. The voters did decide in 2020, they decided on Joe Biden, and that was a solid victory, which was proven by the governors of the states that were in question, by the secretaries of states from there, and then a number of court cases that also followed. So the evidence that Joe Biden had won was overwhelming and the voters chose Joe Biden, but Trump chose to deny that reality and he’s been trying to change the facts and that’s why he’s being charged at this moment in time.
Ian Donnis: As you say, Donald Trump is a real outlier in American politics, the first former president to be criminally charged. He said all manner of things that would have been disqualifying for traditional political candidates. Nonetheless, he remains the favorite by a mile of Republican voters. What is your explanation for that?
Claudine Schneider: I wish I were a mind reader. I’m afraid I don’t know other than the tactic of fear has been implemented by him, and his followers and lying. And many people I met, I just recently met a gentleman who told me he voted for Donald Trump twice and he’s finally come to realize that so much of what he thought was truth was not. And one of the plaintiffs in our case here in Colorado also had voted for Donald Trump twice, and she’d even worked for the Heritage Foundation, which is one of the most conservative think tanks in the United States. So the fact of the matter is, nobody likes to be fooled and some people are coming to the truth a little more slowly than others. But the reality is that. fear of losing in a primary race is certainly what is compelling a number of congressional candidates at this moment in time. And honestly, it, it breaks my heart.
Ian Donnis: More than 130 members of the U. S. House voted against certifying the results of the 2020 election. If the district, if the districts that elected those representatives continue to support them, what do you think should be done to diminish the influence of election deniers and conspiracy theorists?
Claudine Schneider: I think that the election deniers who are still in office, maybe about 127 of them or so, they have to be called out by people like you, Ian, by the media, and do the follow up questions about, you know, getting to the truth, rather than allowing them to be dominated by fear and duping some of the voters. So, we have always looked at the media as the fourth leg of our democracy in addition to the presidency and the administration, the Congress, and the judicial branch. So the media plays an important role and quite frankly, They really do need to help the voters understand truth from fiction.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider, one of six plaintiffs in the lawsuit that knocked Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado.
Claudine, you were first elected in 1980. You represented Rhode Island for 10 years. Your time in Congress coincided with Ronald Reagan’s two terms in the White House. And I’d like to play a clip. From Ronald Reagan’s reelection campaign in 1984.
Ian Donnis: So that was from Ronald Reagan’s 1984 re election campaign. Obviously, the obvious reference was to the Soviet Union. The Cold War has been over for a long time, but there are certain parallels between the Soviet leadership and Vladimir Putin. Putin, the current ruler of Russia, what, Claudine Schneider, what do you think of how Republicans in Congress are now leading opposition to cutting U.S. funding for Ukraine in its fight against Russia?
Claudine Schneider: It is horrifying to me. They are playing politics with the lives of the people in the Ukraine, and they are clearly damaging the role and the reputation of the United States in standing for democracy and for our allies. So, you know, when the president first had a meeting with Mr.Putin, I was quite horrified that he had asked his staff and others to leave the room that has never been done. That should not be done. We need a transparent government from the very top to the bottom of governance. And so the threat is real. That is why other nations in Europe and part of NATO and those who are not part of NATO are eager to join. So that we all stand united and the Republicans playing politics with the funding to support Ukraine is entirely irresponsible.
Ian Donnis: And by the president, you were referring to the former president, Donald Trump?
Claudine Schneider: Yes.
Ian Donnis: You served in the 1980s. That was a time when we saw other Republican women win office like Susan Farmer as secretary of state, Arlene Violet as attorney general. You’ve been in Colorado for some time and you’re less familiar with the current state of Rhode Island politics, but the Republican party has really struggled here recently and outside of the governor’s office has not elected anyone to the four other general office positions since the 1990s. What do you think the difference is between the Republican party in Rhode Island in the 1980s and now?
Claudine Schneider: Well, in the 1980s, the Republican party was quite tiny. We had Senator John Chafee, who was well loved and revered. And he was the one that urged me to run for Congress. But when I ran, the registration was 15 Democrats to every one Republican. So when I ran for office. I said, vote for the person, not the party. And I still, I felt very strongly that we need to elect people that you can trust. And so what’s going on now in Rhode Island, insofar as the Republican party is concerned, if they are adhering to some of the lies that have been put forward, then I think they’re going to have a very difficult time. And even if a Republican were to get elected, my concern is they would be squelched by the MAGA types in Congress. And so that’s why it’s imperative that we move them out.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of the MAGA dominance of the Republican Party nationally, how do you see the future for the Republican Party at the national level?
Claudine Schneider: Well, quite honestly, I do not see any future for America until all of the Republicans are resoundingly defeated because maybe then they will have a wake up call that is significant enough that they will understand that voters deserve true representation and deserve the truth and deserve kindness and collaboration.
For heaven’s sakes, I worked so closely with Republicans and Democrats. Jim Baker and I worked together on tax reform, and we have not seen tax reform since the 1980s. We’ve seen tax benefits for the few, the wealthy few, and for corporations. And so Republicans have no right to talk about the deficit when in fact they are responsible in making sure that the deficit increases in those kinds of ways.
Ian Donnis: That’s all the time we have, so we need to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us, former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider.
Claudine Schneider:
Thank you very much, Ian. A pleasure speaking with you today, and best of everything in 2024 for all of my Rhode Island’s constituents, friends, and everyone in Rhode Island.
—
The flooding that hit Rhode Island this week is a reminder of the growing impact of climate change. More extreme weather is with us now, taxing the resources of local communities. While it remains unclear if the state and nation can reach long-term climate goals, bigger rainstorms have become increasingly common. This poses a challenge for elected officials and their ability to adapt to changing circumstances. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
