One of the most influential Catholics in the United States right now is 32-year-old tech entrepreneur Alex Jones.
Jones is CEO and co-founder of the prayer app Hallow, which has been downloaded more than 20 million times, according to the company.
It’s big enough that last year, Hallow had its very own Super Bowl commercial starring Mark Wahlberg, an investor in the company.
Hallow has also attracted the financial support of high-profile conservative Americans like Peter Thiel and JD Vance, before he became vice president. At this turning point for the Catholic Church, All Things Considered host Scott Detrow spoke to Jones about the new pope.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
Scott Detrow: For more than the past week, cardinals have been having all these meetings, talking about the big issues facing the church. I’m curious, what is most important to you when it comes to the directions the church could go under whoever is elected next?
Alex Jones: As a church more broadly, from my perspective, what we need to focus on is what’s changed my own life radically — is just having our hearts open to the Lord and having him enter them and change them radically, and making sure that we are living our lives on fire with a love for Jesus.
Detrow: Can you give me specific examples of how you do that outside the prayer space, how you do that day to day in your life, in the real world?
Jones: Yeah, I mean, the prayer is a really interesting thing. It’s very different from just meditating. If you spend 15 minutes in prayer in the morning, it has to lead to a life of deeper love. And so what does that mean? I mean, for me, I’m the dad of three little kiddos and the husband of my wife and the question is, “How can I love them better?” But then it’s also loving the poor. It’s loving those who are most marginalized. It’s helping to try to spend time in service to those who are in the most difficult places in their life.
Detrow: We’ve talked to a lot of people who talk also about the church as a political actor in the real world. What is the stance that the church, the next pope, is going to take on immigration, specifically, on things like climate change? What do you think about the church’s role as a political actor, the pope as a global leader? How important is that to you?
Jones: Yeah. It’s important. The church’s primary role is to start with something higher than politics, which is a relationship with Jesus and trying to share that relationship, the real love and peace of God with people. And to reach out to people and introduce them to God’s mercy and his love.
And then, yes, politics and action and service and love for the poor and everything naturally flows from that. The thing that we try to focus on at Hallow, the thing I try to focus on in my life, is certainly not the politics, but is the relationship and the love of God.
Detrow: NPR did an interview the other day with Cardinal Czerny, who used an interesting phrase, he talked about the “digital continent” in the way that he thinks the Catholic Church needs to [be thinking] about spreading itself to continents throughout the world — being more online, getting its message more online.
Obviously, that is a space where you have been very successful. What do you think specifically this institution can do to have a greater presence online, where so many people spend most of their days?
Jones: The church, especially over the last 50 years or so, has leaned much more into trying to reach out to people where they are. It’s not enough just to sit in our parishes and hope that people come into our stores or bring their kids. You have to reach out to people where they are. And whether we like it or not, where people are spending their time today is on their phones and scrolling. And so the question of how do you reach out to folks, especially people who have fallen away, is how can you get somebody to stop scrolling for half a second and let Jesus into their hearts or maybe just spend a couple of minutes in silence.
For us, that’s really what it’s been about. It’s about, “Hey, can we take 30 seconds and just sit in silence and just give Jesus like 30 seconds, 60 seconds? My guess is he’s going to change your life.” And what we’ve seen is that happen countless times. We have people who haven’t been to church in 10, 20 years, who hate religion or are opposed or have been hurt radically by it, who, once they spend 30, 60 seconds, it’s not anything we say, it’s not in the audio — it’s just Jesus. It’s just God speaking to them in silence. And he just tells them exactly what they need to hear and changes their life.
And so that’s what we’ve seen —just leading with spirituality, leading with silence and God enter into that space even in the digital world, which you know, it feels kind of like a contradiction, but God can do it.
Transcript:
SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Cardinals are in the process of selecting the next pope. One of the most influential Catholics in the United States right now is a 32-year-old tech entrepreneur named Alex Jones. Jones is CEO and co-founder of the prayer app Hallow, an app that has, at times, made its way to the very top of Apple’s App Store. It’s been downloaded more than 20 million times. It’s big enough that last year Hallow had its very own Super Bowl ad starring Mark Wahlberg, who invests in the company.
(SOUNDBITE OF AD)
MARK WAHLBERG: Join us in prayer this Lent on Hallow. Stay prayed up.
DETROW: Hallow has also attracted high-profile conservative Americans like Peter Thiel and Vice President JD Vance, both of whom invested in the company through their venture firms, as well. And at this turning point for the Catholic Church, we wanted to talk to Jones about how he’s viewing things. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
ALEX JONES: Thanks so much for having me.
DETROW: You know, we’re talking about this modern high-tech prayer app, and I’m here in this setting of Renaissance art and these ancient traditions. I’m curious whether you personally find God in these rituals and traditions of the Vatican and the Catholic Church.
JONES: Yeah, certainly. I had fallen away from my faith and came back to it really by discovering a relationship with Jesus and the hope and the love and the peace that comes with that through prayer. It led me to all the kind of the ancient traditions of the church. And, you know, there’s a combination of the power of technology and being able to reach out to people in a new and modern way and introduce them to a relationship with Jesus but also celebrating the beautiful tradition of the church.
DETROW: For the past week, cardinals have been having all these meetings, talking about the big issues facing the church. I’m curious what is most important to you when it comes to the directions the church could go under whoever’s elected next.
JONES: Yeah, there was a gospel passage here at one of the recent Sunday masses, and it was this scene where Jesus appears to Peter after his resurrection. He then shortly goes on to ascend into Heaven, and Peter goes on to lead the church. And Jesus asks Peter three questions – actually, the same question three times. And it’s not, you know, what is your stance on whatever issue or what are your perspectives on these things? It’s just, do you love me? And I think that, for us, especially at Hallow – what we try to focus on. But as a church, more broadly, I think what – from my perspective, what we need to focus on is what’s changed my own life radically, is just having our hearts open to the Lord and having Him enter them and change them radically and making sure that we are living our lives on fire with a love for Jesus.
DETROW: Can you give me specific examples of how you do that outside the prayer space? How you do that day-to-day in your life, in the real world?
JONES: Yeah. I mean, prayer is a really interesting thing. It’s very different from just meditating. It has to – and Scripture is very clear on this, and anyone who’s a prayer leader is very clear on this. If you spend 15 minutes in prayer in the morning, it has to lead to a life of deeper love. And so what does that mean? I mean, for me, I’m the dad of three little kiddos and the husband of my wife. And the question is, how can I love them better? But then it’s also loving the poor. It’s loving those who are most marginalized. It’s helping to – trying to spend time and service to those who are in the most difficult places in their life.
DETROW: We’ve talked to a lot of people, interviewing people who talk also about the church as a political actor in the real world. You know, what is the stance that the church, the next pope, is going to take on immigration, specifically on things like climate change, other stuff like that? What do you think about the church’s role as a political actor, the pope as a global leader? How important is that to you?
JONES: Yeah, it’s important, but I think often we talk about the church as a political institution, like we would talk about American politics. And the church’s primary role is to start with something higher than politics, which is a relationship with Jesus. And trying to share that relationship, the real love and peace of God, with people, and to reach out to people and introduce them to God’s mercy and His love. And then, yes, politics and action and service and love for the poor and everything naturally flows from that. And so the thing that we try to focus on at Hallow, the thing I try to focus on in my life, is certainly not the politics but is the relationship and the love of God.
DETROW: And with this next question, just push past the awkwardness of me asking you to give spiritual advice to the next pope. But how would you….
JONES: (Laughter).
DETROW: …Hope that this next leader of the Catholic Church does that, as well, living out that in the big decisions he’ll be faced with?
JONES: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I will be taking the spiritual advice from the pope, not the other way around, the – and will be glad to do so. But for me, the thing that I think all great leaders of the church have in common, and when you look over the last 2,000 years, it’s this all-consuming relationship. It’s this all-consuming spirituality. It’s this peace that is grounded in prayer and in a relationship with Jesus.
And it’s taking time. I mean, the pope has got to be such a demanding job. It’s the weight of the world on your shoulders. The pope’s job is to share the authentic love and mercy of Jesus with the world, and that has to come from your own personal life. And so that would be my prayer for the pope is that he can spend that time growing deeper in a relationship with Jesus and then share that with the world.
DETROW: That is Alex Jones, the CEO and co-founder of the prayer app Hallow. Thanks so much for talking to us.
JONES: Thanks so much for having me. God bless.
