Many questions remain following the arrest of Nick Reiner. The 32-year-old is being held without bail on suspicion of murdering his parents, beloved Hollywood director Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele Singer Reiner.
Nick was arrested Sunday after Rob and Michele were found dead inside their Brentwood, Calif., home. The Los Angeles county district attorney’s office is reviewing evidence in the killings.
Former Orange County homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy told Morning Edition the next step in the investigation is to determine whether Reiner, who is presumed innocent, has an “organic mental illness” or exhibited “bad behavior due to addiction.” Reiner has spoken openly in recent years about substance abuse issues and recovery struggles.
“The difference is, fundamentally, from a prosecutorial standpoint, when you’ve got somebody who’s born with or develops an organic mental illness, a lot of times their behavior isn’t their fault, and it interweaves with a potential insanity defense,” Murphy said.
In a conversation with NPR’s A Martínez, Murphy explained why an insanity defense is “a much tougher bar to reach” for Reiner.
Listen to the full interview by clicking on the blue button above.
The radio version of this story was edited by Taylor Haney and produced by Nia Dumas. The web copy was written by Destinee Adams and edited by Obed Manuel.
Transcript:
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
For more on this, we called Matt Murphy. He’s a former prosecutor in the Orange County, California, district attorney’s office, where he was in the homicide unit for 17 years. He’s also the author of “The Book Of Murder: A Prosecutor’s Journey Through Love And Death.” So, Matt, as we just heard, Nick Reiner’s booked on suspicion of murdering his parents. Take us in the room with prosecutors now. What are they looking for?
MATT MURPHY: Well, the first thing they’re going to do – and remember, he’s presumed innocent – is they’re going to try to distinguish between organic mental illness and bad behavior due to addiction, for lack of a better term. And they are different. They’re very often interrelated, as we see with pretty much every homeless person you see on the street, but there is a difference. This is one – of course, we don’t know exactly what the evidence is yet. But if you notice, originally, there was a $4 million bail, and now it’s no bail. That means that they’ve determined that they’re going to almost certainly file the multiple-victim life enhancement, which is a special circumstance in the state of California, which is a no-bail hold, which exposes him to life without possibility of parole.
MARTÍNEZ: What is the biggest difference between those two things you mentioned?
MURPHY: Well, it’s tough, right? And addiction is something that touches pretty much every American family these days. And the difference is fundamentally, from a prosecutorial standpoint, when you’ve got somebody who’s born with or develops an organic mental illness, it is – a lot of times, their behavior isn’t their fault, and it interweaves with a potential insanity defense. Insanity is a much tougher bar to reach. If this is, as Nick just said in the segment we listened to, a spoiled rich kid who chooses…
MARTÍNEZ: Right. Yeah.
MURPHY: …To use drugs, it’s a really different analysis.
MARTÍNEZ: So that’s what I was about to ask you. Considering we just heard him say that in that interview from a few years ago, that – I mean, is that something that is going to be used by prosecutors as a way to maybe frame this?
MURPHY: Yeah. Look, we – I think everybody by now has at least seen parts of the promotional interview between Rob Reiner and his son, you know, as they’re promoting that “Being Charlie” movie. And there are parts of that that are painful to watch, I think, because you can see the father-son dynamic still at play. And, you know, there’s also information that they were at Conan O’Brien’s holiday party the night before, pretty much leading up to this. And from a mental health standpoint, when you’re analyzing a case for potential insanity defenses as a prosecutor, somebody who can show up to a party and shake hands and dress appropriately, you know, if they’re not howling at the moon, California uses what’s known as the M’Naghten Rule. In other words, if you understand the nature and quality of your actions – if he understands that’s his parents and he’s just mad – it means that a potential insanity defense is going to be very, very difficult to reach.
One of the last murder scenes I walked through, one of the last cases I did in Orange County, was really similar. It was a young man who had organic mental illness that he began then self-medicating and using drugs. That was the Nicholson case out of Newport Beach. He murdered both of his parents with a knife and also the housekeeper. And on Halloween, on October 31, he was convicted. Despite his organic mental illness, he was convicted criminally. And the jury found that he was legally sane, and that sentencing is coming up in just a few days. So California insanity is a very difficult bar.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
MURPHY: And this doesn’t look good for Nick Reiner, honestly.
MARTÍNEZ: And just a note – NPR has not been able to confirm the details being reported about that party at Conan O’Brien’s house. One of the things, though, Matt, really quick, that is unique to being a prosecutor in the LA area is getting a high-profile case involving famous people. How does that change how you build a case? Because social media and the news are going to be picking this thing apart every single minute of the day.
MURPHY: It’s challenging. And I’ve done – you know, I was lucky enough in my career to do several high-profile cases. It is – it’s a challenging thing, but look. We had a sea change in LA. George Gascon was voted out overwhelmingly by the voters of Orange County. And the current Los Angeles prosecutor is a man named Nathan Hochman, who’s very professional. He’s no-nonsense. I’ve had a – I’ve been fortunate enough to meet and work with his executive management, and they are career prosecutors who know what they’re doing. So they’ll be able to navigate that OK, I think.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That is attorney Matt Murphy, formerly a homicide prosecutor in the Orange County, California, district attorney’s office. Matt, thank you very much for your thoughts on this.
MURPHY: Thank you for having me.
