Allegations that Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza are “insane” and “ridiculous,” an adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told NPR.
Just a day after reports that Israeli military forces killed 27 people near an aid distribution site, Caroline Glick, an Israeli American conservative journalist who serves as international affairs advisor to Israel, said in an interview on Morning Edition that the reports are false.
According to the Red Cross and local Gaza health officials, the incident happened at a food distribution site Tuesday, where witnesses say Israeli forces fired on the crowd.
The Israeli military acknowledged firing warning shots, and the private U.S.-backed group running the site insists there was no gunfire.
Speaking to NPR’s Steve Inskeep, Glick shared her account of the incident, discussed the food distribution process and defended the Israeli government’s actions in Gaza.
The interview has been edited for clarity.
Interview highlights
Steve Inskeep: I want to begin with food distribution in Gaza. There is a U.S.-backed Israeli initiative that’s supposed to be distributing food to Gazans. They’ve paused today after multiple violent incidents. And in the most recent one, it seems thousands of people were crowding to an aid site and Israeli troops who were nearby. According to our reporters, Israel acknowledges firing at people near the site. 27 people were killed. What is your understanding of what happened?
Caroline Glick: No, my understanding is different from what you’re saying. First of all, you’re right about the fact that they shut down the distribution site today because they want to get it more streamlined and they want to get more organized and make sure that both the forces and the people at the site themselves are sort of better equipped with dealing with the rush of the people who want to come in and get [aid].
And what happened [Tuesday] was that there was a vehicle that was deliberately leaving the area where everybody was supposed to be and driving directly towards IDF forces on the ground in a threatening way. And so they shot warning shots sort of in the proximity of the people who were coming towards them. It certainly wasn’t 27, and it was about a half a kilometer away from the distribution site. So the number 27, they were killed is not accurate. That’s not what happened at all [Tuesday].
Inskeep: I want to ask about what seems to be the chaos, the necessity for a pause. This is an initiative that Israel started, that Israel decided to move forward with. Why do you think it wasn’t ready?
Glick: I think it was. I mean, it took a while to get it up and going. We were hoping that it was going to be up and going about two weeks before it began. And so it wasn’t that we rushed the opening. We would have liked it to be open two weeks earlier. So it was just a question of getting things organized on the ground properly. And I actually think, you know, despite the media coverage, which has been so distorted and fed by Hamas lies, that sometimes it’s hard to understand. But this has actually been a really successful start of a very complicated mission by people who are doing something new and taking away the control over the aid distribution from the terrorists that have controlled it throughout. The Gaza Humanitarian Fund, the American organization, has given out, so far, like nearly 8 million meals to the people of Gaza through these aid distribution.
Inskeep: Let me ask you about the intensified debate within Israel itself. We spoke last week on this program with Ehud Olmert, the former prime minister. I’m sure you’re familiar with the fact that he is accusing his own country now of war crimes. He says some cabinet members have openly called to deny food to Gazans, called to clear Gazans out, and also says the expansion of the war has no purpose, no militarily achievable purpose. How do you respond?
Glick: I don’t feel the need to respond to a former prime minister who got out of jail recently. I mean, I don’t see any reason why he’s relevant to the discourse.
inskeep: What about Moshe Ya’alon, the former IDF chief of staff, who says the same thing?
Glick: You have a lot of people who are trying to bring down the government and they go abroad and they say nasty things, thinking that’s going to destabilize the governing coalition of Israel. But it’s nonsense. Under the rules of law, you’re allowed to lay siege on places. The idea that it’s a war crime to call for laying siege on somebody is ridiculous. I mean, it goes back to the beginnings of human warfare in history and it’s certainly codified in every known law of war. But that’s not the point. Israel really hasn’t laid siege on Gaza, but calling for it to do so, is not a war crime. That’s insane.
Listen to Throughline‘s episode on how the modern world has tried to define — and prosecute — war crimes.
Inskeep: I want to ask about something else that Prime Minister Netanyahu had to say last month at a press conference. He said he would like to end the war, but under clear conditions. Some of them are familiar to us: all the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, and Gaza is disarmed. But he added one more thing that you have also affirmed in a speech, which is that Israel will carry out the Trump plan. President Trump’s idea was to remove all 2 million people and replace them with some kind of resort, like the Riviera. What specifically is Israel’s plan then? Who will be living there and when?
Glick: I mean, the Trump plan is very simple. It says every war zone has people who live in it and they’re allowed to leave. The only place on earth where people haven’t been allowed to leave a war zone is Gaza because Egypt closed the door and wouldn’t let them out. And what President Trump’s vision is, is let these people make a choice. If they want to stay, they can stay. If they want to go, then allow them to leave. And that is what Israel says. And, you know, the Gallup polls, the Palestinian polls all show that over a million Gazans want to leave Gaza and nobody is letting them. So I think that Israel’s desire to implement the Trump plan is just a desire to allow the people of Gaza what everybody on earth should have, which is the freedom to choose where they want to live.
Inskeep: And when you said in that speech, “this is our land, legally, historically, – ours, all of it,” did you include Gaza when you said all of it?
Glick: Well, you know, you can take it for what you want, but I think President Trump’s idea of Gaza is the one that the government of Israel is adopting, that we believe that Gaza has to be rebuilt, that right now it’s one great big minefield because Hamas booby trapped every single structure in Gaza. And it’s going to take years to clean that up and clear it out to make it fit for human habitation. And in the meantime, the people of Gaza shouldn’t have to live in a minefield.
This digital article was edited by Treye Green.
Transcript:
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
The International Affairs adviser to Israel’s prime minister is on the line next. Caroline Glick is a longtime Israeli American journalist and security specialist who took a position in Benjamin Netanyahu’s government earlier this year. She’s one of many voices we’re hearing over time about the war in Gaza, and she’s on the line from Israel. Welcome to the program.
(SOUNDBITE OF BIRDS CHIRPING)
CAROLINE GLICK: Thanks very much for having me. Good morning.
INSKEEP: And we’ll just acknowledge the birds in the background where you are. I want to begin – beautiful sound, but, of course, a terrible story that we have to discuss. I want to begin with food distribution in Gaza. We’ll remind people there is a U.S.-backed Israeli initiative that’s supposed to be distributing food to Gazans. They’ve paused today after multiple violent incidents, and in the most recent one, it seems thousands of people were crowding to an aid site and Israeli troops who were nearby – according to our reporters, Israel acknowledges firing at people near the site. Twenty-seven people were killed. What is your understanding of what happened?
GLICK: No, my understanding is different from what you’re saying. There were – first of all, you’re right about the fact that they shut down the distribution site today because they want to get it more streamlined and they want to get it more organized and make sure that both the forces and the people at the site themselves are sort of better equipped with dealing with, you know, the rush of the people who want to come in and get aid…
INSKEEP: Yeah, we’ve seen the videos – huge volumes of people are desperate.
GLICK: Where we disagree is about what happened. And what the IDF explained was that, you know, there are very clear areas that – lines of approach to the distribution centers because obviously this is a war zone, and there’s fighting going on.
INSKEEP: Yeah.
GLICK: And so it has to be a very clearly delineated area that people drive through in order to get there, or walk through in order to get there. And what happened yesterday was that there was a vehicle that was deliberately leaving the area where everybody was supposed to be, and driving directly towards IDF forces on the ground in a threatening way. And so they shot warning shots, and then sort of in the proximity of the people who were coming towards them – certainly wasn’t 27 and it was about a half a kilometer away from the distribution site, so…
INSKEEP: OK.
GLICK: …The number 27 that were killed is not accurate.
INSKEEP: OK. But just…
GLICK: That’s not what happened at all yesterday.
INSKEEP: OK, we won’t go back…
GLICK: Twenty-seven people were killed somewhere else. That’s possible, but it has nothing to do with any incident by the aid distribution site yesterday at all.
INSKEEP: Understand. We’ll just note that the Red…
GLICK: Israel so far has enabled through the Gaza…
INSKEEP: We’re going to move on here. I’ll just note that the Red Cross says 27 people were killed in addition to the Gaza authorities. So the Red Cross says that. I want to ask about the – what seems to be the chaos, the necessity for a pause. This is an initiative that Israel started, that Israel decided to move forward with. Why do you think it wasn’t ready?
GLICK: I think it was ready. I mean, it took a while to get it up and going. We were hoping that it was going to be up and going about two weeks before it began. And so it wasn’t that we rushed the opening. We would have liked it to be open two weeks earlier. It started last week, and we wanted it to open two weeks earlier. So, you know, it was just a question of getting things organized on the ground properly. And I actually think, you know, despite the media coverage, which has been so distorted and fed by Hamas lies, that sometimes it’s hard to understand. But this has actually been a really successful start of a very complicated mission by people who are doing something new and taking away the control over the aid distribution from the terrorists that have controlled it throughout…
INSKEEP: Understood. OK.
GLICK: …And giving aid directly to the people of Gaza. Israel has already enabled through the Gaza Humanitarian Fund – the Gaza Humanitarian Fund, the American organization has given out, I mean, so far, like, nearly 8 million meals to the people of Gaza through these aid distribution sites, so I don’t…
INSKEEP: OK. We’re going to check that number. Thank you.
GLICK: …See this as a failure at all. I see this as a great success.
INSKEEP: Let me ask about the intensified debate within Israel itself. We spoke last week on this program with Ehud Olmert, the former prime minister. I’m sure you’re familiar with the fact that he is accusing his own country now of war crimes. He says, in explanation, we said, what’s – why are you saying that when you didn’t say it before? He says some cabinet members have openly called to deny food to Gazans, called to clear Gazans out, and also says the expansion of the war has no purpose, no militarily achievable purpose – his words. How do you respond?
GLICK: I don’t feel the need to respond to former prime minister who got out of jail recently. I mean, I don’t see any reason why he’s relevant to the discourse. You know, people say lots of things, it doesn’t make them…
INSKEEP: What about Moshe Ya’alon, the former IDF chief of staff, who says the same thing?
GLICK: Yeah, well…
INSKEEP: I mean, we could go through a lot of Israelis (ph).
GLICK: …You know, you have a lot of people who are trying to bring down the government, and they go abroad and they say nasty things, thinking that’s going to destabilize the governing coalition of Israel. But it’s nonsense. I mean, you know, under the rules of law, you’re allowed to lay siege on places. The idea that it’s a war crime to call for laying siege on somebody is ridiculous. I mean, it goes back, you know, to the beginnings of human warfare and history, and it’s certainly codified in every known law of war, but that’s not the point. Israel hasn’t laid siege on Gaza, but calling for it to do so is not a war crime. That’s insane.
INSKEEP: OK.
GLICK: It’s just hysteria.
INSKEEP: Let me ask you about one other thing in the couple of minutes that we have left. Prime Minister Netanyahu – if you’ll forgive me. I want to ask about something else that Prime Minister Netanyahu had to say. Last month at a press conference, he said he would like to end the war, but under clear conditions. Some of them are familiar to us – all the hostages come home, Hamas lays down its arms, Gaza is disarmed. But he added one more thing that you have also affirmed in a speech that I saw recently – very interesting speech. You said, we will carry out the Trump plan. President Trump’s idea was to remove all 2 million people and replace them with some kind of resort, like the Riviera, he said. In about a minute that we have, what specifically is Israel’s plan then? Who will be living there and when?
GLICK: Look, I mean – well, all – the Trump plan is very simple. It says every war zone has people who live in it, and they’re allowed to leave. The only place on Earth where people haven’t been allowed to leave a war zone is Gaza because Egypt closed the door and wouldn’t let them out. And what we’re – and what President Trump’s vision is is let these people make a choice. If they want to stay, they can stay. If they want to go, then allow them to leave. And that is what Israel says. And, you know, the Gallup polls, the Palestinian polls, all show that over a million Gazans want to leave Gaza, and nobody is letting them. So I think that Israel’s desire to implement the Trump plan is just a desire to allow the people of Gaza what everybody on Earth should have, which is the freedom to choose where they want to live.
INSKEEP: And when you said – in a couple of seconds – when you said in that speech, this very interesting speech, this is our land, legally, historically, ours, all of it. Did you include Gaza when you said all of it?
GLICK: Well, you know, you can take it for what you want, but I think President Trump’s idea of Gaza is the one that the government of Israel is adopting – that we believe that Gaza has to be rebuilt, that right now it’s one great big minefield because Hamas booby trapped every single structure…
INSKEEP: About 10 seconds.
GLICK: …In Gaza, and it’s going to take years to clean that up and clear it out to make it fit for human habitation. And in the meantime, the people of Gaza shouldn’t have to live in a minefield.
INSKEEP: Caroline Glick is an international affairs adviser to Benjamin Netanyahu. Thanks so much for your time today. Hope we talk again.
GLICK: Thank you very much.
(SOUNDBITE OF RIGID MOODS & ECLECTIC ELEPHANTS’ “SILVER LINING”)
