Luis Hernandez: Brown University proved to be an outlier at university campuses this past week as police elsewhere broke up encampments and arrested protesters. Pro-Palestinian activists at Brown reached an agreement with their school’s administrators to end an encampment. To talk more about how that deal came to be and the reaction on Brown’s campus, I’m joined by one of the student negotiators, Isabella Garo, and a journalist from the Brown Daily Herald, Charlie Clynes. Isabella, Charlie, thank you so much for your time.
Charlie Clynes: Thank you.
Isabella Garo: Thank you for having me.
Hernandez: Isabella, I want to start with you. You were one of the students in the room with the administrators negotiating this deal. When the encampment started, student activists and the school’s president, Christina Paxson, were pretty far apart on things. How did this come together?
Garo: So I will say Christina Paxson was not in the room negotiating with us. It was two other administrators, Russell Carey and Eric Estes. I believe what set this apart, because this is not our first big peaceful action on campus this year. In addition to countless rallies, protests, and marches over the years, we’ve had two sit-ins, resulting in a total of 61 arrests, and one hunger strike consisting of 19 students hunger striking for eight days, and yet, we never once had our central demand met, which was to have a meeting with the Brown University Corporation and to force a vote among the full body of the corporation on the issue of divesting from the Israeli occupation and apartheid in Palestine. I believe what set this meeting apart is actually the actions taking place on other campuses. I think some people have said, “Well, Brown, they were peaceful and they managed to reach an agreement. Why can’t other campuses do that?” But our university has arrested us for peaceful action before. It has refused to meet our demands countless times. It was very clear to me from negotiations that they were afraid that what they were seeing at schools like Columbia would happen in Brown. That was their motivation.
Hernandez: Let’s take a look at what came of all of this. So in the end, students agreed to pack up the encampment. And the school agreed that the university’s governing board will vote on a divestment proposal in October. Students, of course, want Brown to divest, as you said, its multi-billion dollar endowment from companies they believe are benefiting from human rights abuses in the Palestinian territories. The school did not agree, though, to drop charges against students arrested at some of those earlier protests that you had mentioned. Some pro-Palestinian activists on campus think that the school should go even further and hold a divestment vote this semester. Overall, what’s your response to that?
Garo: My response is that the Corporation vote in October is actually quite strategic. I, personally, am of the belief that if we were to have the vote in May, we would not have enough time to lobby every member of the Corporation – of which there are over 50 – in time to guarantee a yes vote. And I do believe that for the sake of this movement, both on campus and beyond, a no vote in May would be more disheartening and disillusioning than the hope of a yes vote in October. I think that vote in October gives us a northern star to work towards. It has really re-invigorated and re-energized the movement on campus. And I am very confident that we will continue to organize and continue to push the university to ensure that vote is a yes in October.
Hernandez: Charlie, again, you’re a reporter who’s been covering these developments for the Brown Daily Herald. What’s been the broader student body’s response to these protests and to the deal that was made?
Clynes: Sure, yeah, we’ve seen quite a range of reactions. On the one hand, of course, you have students who didn’t support the protests for whatever reason. they either felt threatened or they’re just somewhat apolitical, and for the most part, from them we heard relief that, kind of, the normal functions of the university could continue. And then we’ve been hearing, kind of, two things from organizers and pro-divestment students. The first is, kind of, this viewpoint that Isabella articulated where organizers feel that this is something they’ve been pushing for for six or seven months now. We’ve also heard some students who are pro-divestment say, “This is too little, too late,” right? October is a long way away. The university, kind of, hasn’t actually agreed to any material changes in practices or policies. The Corporation can still vote no. And in the meantime, they can kind of continue business as usual. One of the big, kind of, threats of the encampment for the university was that it might disrupt commencement proceedings and, kind of, some of their summer programming. And now that’s something the university doesn’t have to contend with.
Hernandez: I’m wondering because I don’t have a university official here. I’m not putting words in their mouth that they didn’t want things to escalate to the point of what you see at Columbia or UCLA. But I’m just wondering more of your take on perhaps there’s just a fear, like [university officials] don’t want it to escalate.
Garo: Yes, they saw the power that students had at other campuses and their ability and willingness to escalate to the point that the university was so significantly disrupted that they were worried the same thing would happen here, that we would be willing to do what we had seen on other campuses. And so it is actually the determination and the courage of student protestors at other universities that enabled us to reach an agreement through peaceful protest in ways that we have not been able to do before.
Hernandez: Charlie, from your reporting, do you think the administration was heavy-handed in this? What have you heard from them about maybe concerns or fears they had about what they were seeing happening around the country?
Clynes: Yeah. I mean, I definitely think there was concern. I think they also saw an opportunity to distinguish Brown from some of its peers. The police force at Columbia, the clashes between protesters and counter protesters at UCLA, these mass arrests around the country, really don’t look good for colleges and Brown has managed to avoid that altogether to be able to say, “We sat down with protesters. We listened to their demands. We granted them some of their demands, not all of them, but we kind of gave them a seat at the table” that I think looks really good for Brown’s administration on a national stage.
Hernandez: Last question for both of you. Charlie, I’ll start with you. Is there anything else you want to add about everything that’s been happening?
Clynes: I will say that while the encampment is over, I think I expect to see more organizing throughout the summer and early fall from other student groups on campus. The Graduate Labor Organization, for instance, yesterday held a very large rally in the streets around College Hill calling for divestment. And so I don’t think we’ll see an end to organizing, although I do think that for the time being, the focal point of organizing, which was the encampment is, is over.
Hernandez: Isabella, what else would you like to add?
Garo: Yeah, thank you for that, Charlie. I was going to say something similar, and it’s just that we’re not going away. Some people were worried that because the October meeting is so far away that we might just sit on our hands until then, but we were organizing very well before the encampment. We will continue to organize now that it is over to ensure that that vote in October is a yes for divestment.
Hernandez: I’ve been speaking with Brown University student activist Isabella Garo and Charlie Clynes of the Brown Daily Herald. Charlie, Isabella, thank you so much for the time. I appreciate the insight.
Clynes: Thanks for having me on.
Garo: Thanks for having me.Â
Hernandez: Brown University administrators declined our invitation to join this conversation.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
