Gonzalo Cuervo, one of the Democrats running to succeed Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza in 2022, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable. The panel includes URI emeritus professor of political science Maureen Moakley and Boston Globe reporter Dan McGowan.
Here’s a transcript of the discussion.
Ian Donnis: Let’s start with the big story of the week — plans by Lifespan, Care New England and Brown University to collaborate on a new joint effort. There’s debate about whether this would be good or bad for health care consumers. Gonzalo Cuervo, these health care organizations and Brown have a big footprint in Providence. How do you come down on whether you support or don’t support this proposal?
Cuervo: Well, I think the most important thing is to ensure that all Rhode Islanders have access to the best possible healthcare. But the fact is that these organizations have a massive, tax-exempt footprint in the city. And already 42 percent of the city’s property is tax-exempt, and these three organizations are a huge part of that. So obviously, we want to make sure that that whatever comes out of this process is really aimed at providing the best possible healthcare to Rhode Islanders. We also have to look at the fiscal health of our city. And the fact that, you know, our taxpayers are tapped out. And as these institutions grow, and their footprint grows, what that really turns into is a larger tax bill for homeowners and businesses. And that’s just not sustainable.
Donnis: Maureen, the idea of lifespan and care New England coming together on a project with Brown University has been talked about for years and years and years, as we know. What is your perspective on whether this would be a good thing for Rhode Island or whether having a somewhat monopolistic operation would not be so good?
Maureen Moakley: Well, I think that it is a good thing for Rhode Island. I share Gonzalo’s concern about the tax base. But I think this is long overdue, and understand the reservations of the union people because the effect it’s going to have on consolidation and jobs. But I do think the addition of Brown is a real game-changer. And the tax question not withstanding, when you have 80 percent of the market, it’s really great to be able to specialize. I was on one board, one of the boards of these hospitals, and there’s was tremendous competition, and they didn’t want to allow the other to operate, you know, in certain fields. So in that sense, I think it really is a step forward. And I think it’s long overdue. One of the interesting things about this, I think, is unfortunately, the delay was caused by personality differences of heads of the boards. I mean, they didn’t get along, and that stalled this a lot. In the spring, if you remember, they came together to address the pandemic in Rhode Island. The media reported a big breakthrough. They talked to one another. I think that was a stunning revelation. And I think it’s good that these two people that make a lot of money are going to get together and work together.
Donnis: Dan, some of your colleagues have pointed out that these sorts of combined efforts in the past have not really resulted in savings for healthcare consumers. What is your perspective on whether this would be good or bad for the public interest?
Dan McGowan: Well, I think, look, the clear fact here is that this would not be happening if the two healthcare organizations, Lifespan and care New England, were in sort of perfect or immaculate fiscal condition, right? Part of the thing that has pushed this along for a really long time has been largely Care New England’s financial health, which has been a big struggle. And so when the institutions say that this is going to be so much better, for, you know, the consumer, for the patients, things like that, you know, keep in mind, this is all about the finances, really. I will say I think Brown University is the big winner in all of this, you know, Brown has been a, you know, the institution that has to kind of look up to a Harvard, to a Yale, in this region. And now it’s going to be a major player in the healthcare industry. So I think it’s a good I think it’s good news for Brown. I think it’s wait and see for patients. And I think it’s it’s really important to just pay attention to, you know, the decisions that get made over the next year, two years as this thing actually happens.
Donnis: Well, let’s proceed with some more questions for our guests, Gonzalo Cuervo. Gonzalo is one of a number of people gearing up for a Providence mayoral run. Others include the outgoing director of Administration for Governor Raimondo, Brett Smiley, Providence City Councilor Nirva LaFortune and Providence City Council President Sabina Mattos, who is also in the running for lieutenant governor. Gonzalo, you’ve been a behind the scenes guy. You were a chief of staff for Angel Taveras when he was mayor of Providence. Most recently you were chief of staff for Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea. Why are you getting going from a staffer role to running for public office now?
Cuervo: I think it’s the right time to take a leadership role in our city’s future. I really love the city. And there are a lot of reasons to love the city. But there are a lot of people that don’t have the opportunity to enjoy everything that the city has to offer. The city has unbelievable assets, cultural, institutional, human assets. But there are a significant part of our population that has been left behind. And I think my background, and my life experience, has prepared me for this moment to take on the leadership of the city,
Donnis: The Democratic primary next year will probably decide the race. What is your path for for winning?
Cuervo: I’ve been talking to residents and business owners across the city for the past couple of months. And what I hear is a lot of people who are concerned about the direction the city’s heading in as we come out of the pandemic. You know, a lot of what makes the city great is our hospitality and cultural scene. And that has been severely impacted by the pandemic. But there’s a lot of hope. And there’s a lot of enthusiasm for the future. And I think we can harness that with very strategic investments. And we’re bringing people together from different sides of the city, that have a vested and common interest in the city’s success. You know, we can’t be successful in a city where there’s this incredible income inequality. Brookings indicated that Providence has the third-highest income inequality of any city in America. That’s a pretty big deal. You know, the people who are doing well can’t do well if the people who aren’t doing well are so far behind. So we really have to address that. And we really have to make strategic investments, and bring people together to understand that we all will either grow together or we will fail together.
McGowanL Gonzalo, you live about two and a half blocks from Mount Pleasant High School, which means that basically one of the lowest-performing high schools in all of New England is essentially on your doorstep. I’m curious, as we see the state, you know, having much more of a role in Providence schools, what role do you think the mayor and the City Council should have in this state takeover? Given that it’s you guys who answered the questions about, you know, struggling schools — it’s you who have to be in the neighborhoods and things like that?
Cuervo: Well, first of all, I think it was a mistake for the administration and council to basically hand over the keys without demanding structure for accountability or real structure for accountability. I think we’re seeing that now that the state is asking for an increase in the city’s contribution to education. And it’s an unfortunate situation, however, we’re here. And we have to move forward. And I think that the city should leverage, particularly the mayor’s office, and the council leadership, can leverage the bully pulpit of those of those respective offices to rally public support, to ensure that the Rhode Island Department of Education is being responsive to the needs of the citizens of the students, and work together with RIDE to figure out what’s the best way to have a smooth transition back to local control.
McGowan: Just a follow-up — one of the big questions right now is about charter schools in Providence. There are some of your opponents in this race who do not support the expansion of charter schools in the city. Where do you fall on charter schools? Is there a line you’d like to draw? Or would you like to see even more come into the city?
Cuervo: I think charter schools have played an important role. Charter schools were intended to be sort of laboratories where we could try new concepts out. And we’ve had decades already of experience to see what works and what doesn’t work in the charter schools. And I think that charter schools are important, but we can’t rely on them as a solution. They they’re kind of like a tool in the toolbox. And what we really have to focus on is figuring out how do we work with our public schools where the vast majority of our kids go — where, you know, getting into a charter school is basically like winning the lottery. The vast majority of people will never get the winning ticket. So what are we doing to address the needs of those children of those kids? And I think that just assuming that by expanding charter school presence, we’re going to solve the problem. I think that’s not true.
Moakley: Mayor Elorza touts the fact that every year he balances the budget But in one sense, that’s like saying you paid off the interest on your credit card. But you’re not addressing the principal, the principal being the massive pension shortfall that has to be addressed. The mayor has essentially given up on that. He’s pretty much said it’s going to have to go to his successor. If you’re the successor, what would your strategy be?
Cuervo: We really have to bring all the stakeholders together, and have a real honest conversation and assessment of where we are with the pension. And not only in terms of the unfunded liability, but also in terms of the sustainability of the ARC payment, the annual contribution, because there are a lot of factors at play here. You know, as we mentioned earlier, 42 percent of the city’s properties is tax-exempt. So the vast majority of the tax burden is falling on property owners and businesses. And so these folks are maxed out. And we also have to understand that, obviously, unions, they’re not eager to give back concessions. So I think this requires a very careful conversation with all stakeholders, including the state, the unions and taxpayers and elected officials to find a viable path so that the pension system is sustainable for the long term, and not just kind of like patching things and kicking the can down the road, which is what we’ve seen
Donnis: You mentioned income inequality a little bit earlier. That’s a big issue. If you were to become mayor, what would your approach be to trying to make some improvement on that?
Cuervo: So I think what we have to do is, we really have the city has to have a holistic approach to this, like it has to be part of a vision and a mission. It can’t just be, you know, creating small programs to address pieces of this. You know, job training is important. You know, helping small businesses get loans is important. But there has to be a much more comprehensive approach. What we need to do is we need to build a strong middle class in the city of Providence. What we have is, we have focus points, neighborhoods where there are wealthy people, we have neighborhoods where there are upwardly mobile, people that are, you know, working from home and doing all types of creative, wonderful things. And we have a vast majority of people that are kind of stuck in a hamster wheel, just spinning and spinning and trying to survive. And that’s the that’s a significant part of our population. And what we need to do is we need to figure out and every single thing that we do in the in the city from paving roads, to supporting small businesses to improving education has to revolve around the focus of how do we build and strengthen the middle class within the city of Providence.
Donnis: One more question for you. What is your favorite place to go to for pizza?
Cuervo: There’s so many.
Donnis: Don’t give us the political response.
Cuervo: Rita’s Pizza. I order from there, Rita’s Pizza on Cranston Street.
Ian Donnis can be reached at idonnis@ripr.org. Sign up here for his weekly political newsletter.
