Listen to the interview or read the transcript below.
FRANK THACKER: When it comes to politics, I think I have an understanding of how it works and the place it has in our culture. But I don’t have a lot of hope in that being the vehicle that’s going to bring about change. So my hope is in what I call the evolution of consciousness, where people realize more and more that we’re in this together, and it’s not going to work unless we realize that and work together.
ALEX NUNES: Madeline, where would you say you’re at politically these days?
MADELINE LABRIOLA: I think where everyone else is: somewhat confused, somewhat concerned. And I am more active in the political scene than my partner over here, Frank. Although, I’m also in the same level as he is that you need to change people one at a time. And I don’t mean change, because they’re bad, but change so that they’re more aware. So when I deal in politics–for instance, I’ve done phone calling, I’ve done rallies, I’ve written letters to the editor and op eds about different issues in the political field, and even campaigned for different people. And I’m still doing that now. And I do that because, to me, that’s what we have right now to bring about change.
ALEX NUNES: So when you both say that you’re concerned with the the course that we’re on, or the way things are today, like what specifically do you want to see change? Are there certain policies or certain things about life in America right now that need to change, like what specifically?
FRANK THACKER: Sharing of the power maybe, moving from competition to cooperation, or working together. It’s like: Why can’t we do that? You know, when you meet someone, and you don’t know much about them in terms of their political background and stuff, and you start talking, you get to know them a little bit. And you find out that they support one political party, which you don’t. But once you have that connection first, then that different views, you can talk about it and maybe come up with even a better one between the two of you.
ALEX NUNES: What about you, Madeline? What would be some priorities, things that you want to see changed?
MADELINE LABRIOLA: Well, I think for me there are two existential threats faced right now. One is climate. The second existential threat is nuclear weapons. Those two issues are huge. And a lot of people aren’t–they may be aware of climate change, but a lot of people are not aware of the nuclear issue. When I look at a candidate, whether it’s on the national level, or local level, I look and see: What are they saying about these two issues?
ALEX NUNES: Do you hear politicians talking about that specific issue, about military spending and nuclear weapons?
MADELINE LABRIOLA: What I hear is that they want to even spend more, which is really frightening.
ALEX NUNES: A lot of what we’ve been talking about, it makes me think that one challenge is that a lot of people aren’t on the same page about what we should be working towards.
MADELINE LABRIOLA: That’s true. And that is worrisome, because if people can’t come together to find what it is that we have in common, what it is that we both want, and be able to listen to each other with some respect for the other person, the other position, I don’t know how we’re going to solve the problem. So I think that local politics is just as important as state or national politics, and right now, like with education, I think our schools are becoming a battleground.
ALEX NUNES: Do you mean sort of the kind of almost like cultural wars right now about what’s taught in school around race or gender?
MADELINE LABRIOLA: Yes, definitely. This division, this pulling apart of our culture is very dangerous, I think.
FRANK THACKER: I don’t know that I believe that. I think that if you really sit and talk with someone that’s on the opposite side of the political picture, if you want to call it that, if you really talk to that person, you can eventually find a common ground. I think most people want not only what they see is good, but what they think is good for everybody else. And there’s some commonality in there, I think, between people that may appear to be very, very opposed to each other.
ALEX NUNES: What qualities do you look for in someone who you would vote for?
FRANK THACKER: I would [say] integrity.
MADELINE LABRIOLA: What does that mean, Frank?
FRANK THACKER: It means that they are true to themselves. I don’t know how to explain it. It’s just one of the people that’s running locally, I’ve gotten to know him. I mean, it’s really, it’s just integrity. This is who he is. And this is how he’s going to be, as best he can. So they’re really grounded and rooted in something, and they’re not going to be swayed by this or that.
MADELINE LABRIOLA: I like to see a platform–what do I believe in–being very clear about, and I would look for someone who the environment was the top of their list, that that was really important to them. And education, and what I would say is the common good. And somebody tells me those things, then that’s the person I will support. And, of course, integrity and honesty and all of those things, which everybody thinks they are, by the way.
ALEX NUNES: [Laughs] What politician is going to tell you they have no integrity? [Laughs] Madeline Labriola and Frank Thacker, thanks very much for speaking with me.
MADELINE LABRIOLA: Thank you, Alex. It’s been a pleasure.
FRANK THACKER: Thanks. It’s good to be here.
Alex Nunes can be reached at anunes@thepublicsradio.org
