This week, I’m going one on one with state Senator Tiara Mack, one of the progressive lawmakers who’s made an impact in the legislature and beyond. I’ll talk with another progressive, Rachel Miller, who is expected to be the next president of the Providence City Council. And we’ll hear about the high-stakes legal battle over the future of truck tolls in Rhode Island.
State Senator Tiara Mack (D – Providence)
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Tiara Mack: Hi, thanks for having me.
Ian Donnis: There were kind of mixed results for progressives in the primary election earlier this month, the plan by one progressive group, the Rhode Island Political Cooperative to stage a takeover of state government really did not happen. But there were a number of progressive victories elsewhere. Wonder how you break down the results of the primary election from a progressive perspective?
Tiara Mack: Yeah, so I mean, we did get somewhat mixed results. But there are a lot of other great organizations like Working Families Party and Reclaim RI, which had several of their candidates win in the primary season. Myself and Enrique Sanchez, I believe, who is also a member of Providence DSA, also a progressive organization, saw some wins of their candidates as well. So, though we didn’t see the the sweeping wins that I think many people were planning for, I think, based on our progress in 2020, and where we’re at right now in 2022, we’ve, we’ve still managed to make a net gain of progressives in the State House, which I’m excited for.
Ian Donnis: And certainly I think that’s had an effect as far as moving the Senate leadership to the left on issues like climate change, and some other issues. The political cooperative has been somewhat of a polarizing group. Supporters say it’s about doing more to represent the concerns of everyday Rhode Islanders. But some progressives view the group somewhat skeptically and have questions about its fundraising. When you ran in 2020, you ran as a member of the coop, this year, you’re not running as a member of the coop, I believe. What is your view of the coop and those competing views of it?
Tiara Mack: Yeah, so I don’t think there is right now yet a blueprint in Rhode Island or even nationally of what it looks like to be a progressive and to have progressive values. Lots of folks will put it on their their mail that in on their Instagram or Twitter and say that they’re progressive, but right now, there’s no clear vision of what we nationally or even locally are fighting for. So I think that’s one of the challenges. And I did disaffiliate from the Rhode Island political cooperative, over a year ago. And a lot of it was my concerns around their strategy. I disaffiliated, along with several of my colleagues who were in office at the time, because we didn’t feel that the strategy and some of the recruitment efforts represented where we were at and some of the values that we aligned with when we first ran. I am still an adamant believer, and I still think that is one of the downfalls of the strategy today, that running statewide candidates is – was the opposite of what we wanted to do. There is no power right now in Rhode Island for the governor. Most of the power and most powerful people in our state are the Senate president and the House speaker. And so running a statewide race just siphoned resources from folks who were overall really great and selfishly, they were also many people who were super volunteers on my campaign in 2020, who put in lots of hours and time and resources to make my first campaign a success. So I think that there was just some missteps with a strategy overall, and a miscalculation of where true power in Rhode Island is held.
Ian Donnis: You scored a victory in the primary over former State Representative Joe Almeida. What are your priorities for the next legislative session?
Tiara Mack: Yes, well, I still have a general election to get through, which won’t be as challenging as my primary election. But my main priorities stay the same: criminal justice reform, making sure that we are prioritizing working families. I’m going to be championing and working with the George Wiley Center on their PIP bill: payment, percent income bill, especially now that we have rate hikes up to almost 50% that will be happening in just two or three days for Rhode Islanders. That’s going to be a huge bill for working families. And we’re going to need all of our progressive and people aligned legislators voting in favor of that in the first few months of legislation. I’m also going to be championing bills and legislation that’s going to impact a person’s right to choose whether that is protecting our queer and trans community members through health care, housing, and other social services and comprehensive quality, pleasure based comprehensive sex ed, which is a bill that I have championed and it also got under flack for from the alt right in the community but still a bill that I vehemently believe in and then a host of other issues around housing and wage justice.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of getting flack you got a lot of attention, some positive but a lot of it negative from people like Tucker Carlson of Fox News, after you posted a video of your yourself twerking at the beach in a bikini. Does that that kind of social messaging step on your policy views and detract from your effort to make progress on some of the issues that you were just talking about?
Tiara Mack: No. Fortunately for me, I came into Rhode Island politics as an unapologetically black queer young person and I have led with that same exact energy since I’ve been in the office and folks who followed my campaign, and the way that I lead know that that’s just Tiara Mack being Tiara Mack and leading how she, how she wants to and in a way that represents and resonates with a vast majority of my constituency, hence my reelection by a pretty wide margin against a former state representative. And so I don’t think that has that has damaged my relationships with community, I think it’s going to definitely be a challenge for some of my colleagues who aren’t ready to engage and interact with someone who just has a very different life experience and life view and an approach to the work. But I hope it encourages more people to hold those leaders under fire. I was not excited that Senate President Ruggerio one against his two opponents, and that is someone who I openly challenged him openly critical of and someone else who has a very, who has a much more troubled past then just my twerking. And so comparing myself to some of the other folks who have criminal records, who have DUIs and who have been in Rhode Island politics for decades, most of them before I was born, I don’t think it will change the way that they should look at me because many of them have passed in histories that are a little bit worse than, you know, twerking and having fun on the beach.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of Senate President Dominick Ruggerio, as you say he defeated two rivals to win his primary looks like he’ll be retaining his position. Do you expect that he will hand off the Senate presidency in his next two year term? And if so, who would be on the receiving end?
Tiara Mack: Yeah, I think that is that’s the biggest piece of speculation about what’s going to happen in this upcoming session. We still have a couple of races that have pretty competitive generals. But there’s also going to be a new wave of leaders that are coming into the state house. I hope it is someone who is much more aligned with my own policy views. Some of the names that I think who have been around the statehouse and who are leaders, Dawn Euer, and some other folks who are who are a little bit more progressive, who have had Chair memberships and who have led committees. But I don’t know, I can only hope that we have a senate president who is committed to actually having meetings with every single legislator. And my second session, my meeting was canceled in early February and was never rescheduled, after reaching out several times to both the Senate President and Senator McCaffrey at the time and the Majority Whip Mary Ellen Goodwin. So I hope that we at least have a leadership that makes a commitment to making sure that every single voice is being heard, and that every single legislator who cares about issues and communities gets a meeting to address their priorities.
Ian Donnis: There were big demonstrations in Providence and other cities around the country after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. Since then, those demonstrations, we don’t see them happening. Has the energy dissipated for the movement for social justice? And if so, how does that movement regain its energy?
Tiara Mack: Yeah, I think that I don’t think the momentum has been lost. I think it’s been shifted into ways in which we can actually pass people centered policy and policy doesn’t always look like legislation. And policy doesn’t always look like a big sweeping movements in folks in the streets. It also encompasses– the city of Providence is passing, I believe, today, their reparations agenda, which is sponsored by a councilperson, Helen Anthony, which is $10 million in the Providence city budget to address reparations and forms of education, housing and opportunity. So that’s where some of the effort is gone. And also in the State House, I am hoping to work with folks in the Black and Latino caucus who also encourage and to promote a bill to do a reparations plan statewide modeled after what California was able to pass into, into legislate and their state. So if California, which is, I’d say like, 10 times bigger than Rhode Island can do it. I think a place like Rhode Island could have active investments. So I think the energy has shifted and it looks different because there are so many different ways that we can attack how we address Black lives in our communities.
Ian Donnis: With the US Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade, how do we have supporters of abortion rights like yourself, how do you restore abortion rights in the states where it’s been restricted or wiped out?
Tiara Mack: Yeah, so right now in Rhode Island, I think the biggest thing for folks to know is that 1/3 of Rhode Islanders do not have access to abortion. Even though in 2019 we codified Roe v Wade in our state law, we also have restrictions for for anyone who is a minor, they can’t receive an abortion without having parental consent or judicial bypass which is often a barrier for young people. So those are some of the issues for access that exist right here still in Rhode Island and as an abortion funder who works with Rhode Island’s only abortion fund, we’ve seen an influx of not only volunteer support but of money. And that is one of the ways that folks who are interested in funding abortion are increasing access to abortion right here in Rhode Island can be tuned into the issue. Other states have other really great supports in terms of mutual aid and abortion funds to make sure that even if it is not legal in their state, it is still accessible to the folks who are there or to go to another state, either by flying by driving and having a hotel so that they can get the care the medically necessary care that they deserve. So I encourage all Rhode Islanders to pay attention to the landscape right here in our state because there are Rhode Islanders who don’t have authentic access to abortion care. And that is, we need to save our communities first before we pay attention to other communities. But some of the legislative pieces are making sure that we remove parental consent and ensure that our state government and the Medicaid health care plan covers abortion for all of its people that it provides.
Ian Donnis: The left and right like to blame one another for so called cancel culture. There might be a fair bit of blame to go around. Back in 2013, former New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly got heckled down from giving a speech at your alma mater, Brown University. Does that show that both sides are comfortable to some extent for so called cancel culture?
Tiara Mack: No, I don’t believe so. And I believe there’s a difference between I don’t believe anyone can be canceled. But I do believe there is a difference between allowing free speech and blocking hate speech. I’ve been called many different things online. And I just two weeks ago participated at the Cranston Public Library where there was a group of anti trans youth protests or who had a meeting about gender ideology or some other conflated term which was basically anti trans sentiment. While I do believe in free speech, I don’t believe in free platforms. I don’t believe that anyone should be using public resources in order to uplift a hate campaign. And I don’t believe that anybody who comes into a space where they’re going to be people who are potentially harmed or who do not agree with them, are not held accountable to their actions, both internally and externally. And so I believe like heckling folks like Ray Kelly, which I was on campus for at the time, I was a I believe, as a sophomore at the time, if not, while I was at Brown. And I remember that moment, but someone who’s caused harm in our communities that is often preventing them from speaking about the ways that they’ve harmed communities is also an act of resistance in a way to uplift what the community actually feels and sees is happening on the ground.
Ian Donnis: That’s all the time we have, so we need to leave it there. Thank you for joining us, Rhode Island State Senator Tiara Mack, a Providence Democrat.
Tiara Mack: Thanks for having me.
Providence City Councilor Rachel Miller (D – Ward 13)
Rachel Miller worked as an activist with a group called Rhode Island Jobs with Justice before winning a Providence City Council seat in 2018. She represents Ward 13, made up of Federal Hill and part of the West End. Miller identifies as a socialist, but you’re not going to find her nationalizing the railroads any time soon. She’s a serious policy wonk and is expected to win election in January as the next president of the Providence Council.
Ian Donnis: If you win election in January, what will your priorities be as council president?
Rachel Miller: So we have a really dynamic group of people coming into Council. I think that it will be the youngest, the most diverse Council in quite some time, if not ever. I think that something that’s going to bring us all together are shared priorities around affordability, public education, community and public safety and economic development.
Ian Donnis: What do you think your biggest differences would be from predecessors John Igliozzi and Sabina Matos as council president?
Rachel Miller: I think everyone brings their own kind of values and personality to the role. I think something that has really driven our coalition, as we’ve been talking are the desire to be open and transparent in our decisions in our even discussions with one another, and with the public and with other city government officials, and to focus really on what’s driving us our kind of core belief in our residents in our neighborhoods, before we kind of focus on differences that I’m sure will come up, right. But really, it’s about sort of focusing on this commonality and leading with transparency.
Ian Donnis: As you said, there will be a lot of new faces on the council in January, I believe, seven new members. The arguments for and against term limits have been heard, you know, some people think term limits guards against entrenched incumbents. On the other hand, you lose a lot of institutional knowledge when there’s a high degree of turnover. How do you feel about term limits on the city council?
Rachel Miller: I think it’s exciting to see so many new people getting involved in their local government. I just, you know, in this past election, I saw so many candidates in like multiple candidates in a single Ward, who were all earnestly making a pledge to work for their community. I think we saw that play out in the primaries. I think that’s exciting, a good thing. I think it builds a lot of another pathway for residents to also get involved in their local government, as they’re kind of meeting new people and engaging the conversation.
Ian Donnis: You identify as a socialist, what does that mean to you?
Rachel Miller: As an elected official, I’m I’m really focused on outcomes, right? Outcomes for residents that put our economic and social well being first, you know, that’s played out in my investments in the neighborhood, in parks and community spaces. It also played out in the issues that championed. So among other things, the tax break reform that I championed over the last four years, has opened up real opportunities, that when public money is going to private development, we’re standing up good family wage jobs for residents that are going to turn into lifetime careers. Right. So I think that’s kind of belief into action is what’s important to me. I think, as we look to the kind of coalition and the full Council and the next term, I think, again, it’s that, you know, the ways and means there might be differing, and like open disagreement on some of that, but ultimately, all 15 folks, I believe, are coming with a good faith, residents first in every neighborhood.
Ian Donnis: You’re one of a handful of elected officials in Rhode Island who identify as a socialist or democratic socialists. There’s also a State Senator Sam Bell, State Rep. David Morales, State Rep-elect Enrique Sanchez, and his brother Miguel Sanchez, who’s the city councilor elect in Ward six. Why is it that socialism is offering more appeal to young, politically active people on the left?
Rachel Miller: I can’t speak for everyone. I think I come from a long tradition of community organizing, and community and labor organizing together. So for me, and I think the folks you mentioned, have done pretty tremendous work in short periods of time. But for me, it really is about like our shared values and our shared kind of sense of public good.
Ian Donnis: You’ve been on the scene in Rhode Island, for a long time formally as an activist with the group Rhode Island jobs with justice, in Providence, as great as the city is there are three main persistent long term challenges that have been pretty difficult to improve on over the years. That’s a lack of city revenue, underperforming public schools, and the city’s under funded pension system, which has less than a quarter of the money needed to meet its long term obligations. How much improvement do you think the city can make on those three areas over the next few years?
Rachel Miller: I think both the council and the mayor elect are going to be focused on putting Providence on good, strong fiscal footing. I think that’s true in our pension system. I think, you know, the pension obligation bond is an opportunity that persists. I think the timeline on that is we have five years to seek out the bond. That’s going to be one tool in the toolbox. In terms of revenue. I am really looking forward to conversations about renegotiations on the payment in lieu of taxes for the hospitals and the universities. I think that that’s one solution. It’s not the only solution. But that’s one way that we can look to bring more revenue in. And really that conversation is about, like this core understanding that the universities, it’s mutually beneficial, right, the universities and the city kind of, we need each other to be fully functioning and doing excellent. And so there’s a roadmap for some of that, right like New Haven, and Yale came to a really beneficial agreement. I’m looking forward to that conversation with the mayor elect and with the other members of council.
Ian Donnis: Speaking in the mayor elect, Brett Smiley will take office in January as the next mayor of Providence he doesn’t face any opposition in November. What do you expect in your relationship with Brett Smiley?
Rachel Miller: I’m looking forward to a strong relationship, a good working relationship. I think that we come to government from the same place of wanting to move Providence forward in a way that it’s best for our residents. I think that’s true of the council members as a whole. It’s true of the mayor elect. I think that we’ll be able to have like strong policy conversations and disagree in a forthright way when we have to but find a lot of common ground.
Ian Donnis: Ward 13 Providence City Councilor Rachel Miller, thank you for joining us.
Rachel Miller: Thank you so much.
Grow Smart RI and the truck-toll program
A ruling by a federal judge in Providence last week brought a sudden end to Rhode Island’s truck-tolling program. The initiative was launched under former Governor Gina Raimondo to generate more money for improving roads and bridges. But U.S. District Court Judge William Smith calls the program unconstitutional. An appeal is considered likely, but Governor Dan McKee has yet to announce the next move. Joining me now to discuss truck tolls and other infrastructure issues is Scott Wolf. He’s executive director of Grow Smart Rhode Island, which promotes sustainable economic growth.
Ian Donnis: Scott Wolf, your organization supported the introduction of the truck tolling program under former governor Gina Raimondo. How come?
Scott Wolf: We thought that the state was in a crisis situation regarding the bridge deficiencies in the state. We were, I think, ranked first in the country in the percentage of our bridges that were considered structurally deficient. And we also thought that, based on research, we saw that the biggest impact, negative impact on our bridges does come from trucks, that they produce a lot more wear and tear on the bridges than passenger vehicles. And that, therefore, this seemed like a fair and rational approach to generating some revenue in a hurry to deal with this crisis situation. We also supported this, because we have a strong belief that transit in Rhode Island and bike and ped infrastructure in Rhode Island are underfunded. And we felt that if the bridge repair crisis was going to be dealt with one way or another, and then if there wasn’t adequate funding to do it, then transit and bike and ped would be further marginalized, financially.
Ian Donnis: How do you respond to the argument from critics of truck tolls, that it’s prejudicial or discriminatory to toll only big trucks in Rhode Island?
Scott Wolf: Well, I think big trucks do cause the majority of wear and tear on our roads and bridges. I think that is indisputable. We wouldn’t automatically object to a broader tolling program. But I think that putting the major burden on the users who are creating the major problem is a fairly reasonable, rational approach.
Ian Donnis: Do you think the state has a decent chance of winning this case on appeal if it pursues an appeal?
Scott Wolf: I don’t know. I’m not a lawyer, and certainly not a constitutional lawyer. So it’s hard for me to know. Again, we’re looking at not the legal constitutional analysis of the situation, but more of the practical policy perspective on this.
Ian Donnis: You said earlier how it’s a real struggle to generate enough money in Rhode Island to pay for road and bridge and other transit improvements. Why is that?
Scott Wolf: Well, there’s several, several reasons. One is we kick the can down the road on on broad, but somewhat controversial solutions, or partial solutions to our funding problem for roads and bridges, and transit, as well. There have been proposals to have broader tolling at the Connecticut and Massachusetts borders. But those have been I think, viewed as political nonstarters. There have been some discussion about a VMT, vehicle miles traveled fee, that Oregon and Utah are experimenting with, for example, but that has not sort of crossed the threshold of acceptability yet. So you’ve got that you’ve also got the fact that the revenues from the gas tax are declining, as we have more fuel efficient vehicles. And as we have more conversion of our vehicle fleet to electric vehicles, so the gas tax is not a sustainable, dominant funding source for transportation. That’s a stark reality that we have to deal with. And it’s becoming a starker reality as we’re going to see more electric vehicles on the road, which we think is a good thing. Overall. There’s a financial challenge here that is right in our faces, and that we just have to confront in a way that is systematic, that is fair. When you talk about VMTs, a system there’s some talk about, not only looking at miles traveled, but also at the at the weight of the vehicle, and perhaps putting more of a burden on those folks who are driving heavy vehicles than those who are driving lighter ones, which I think could have some positive equity advantage as well, because I don’t think most people of very modest means are driving huge gas guzzling SUVs. I’m not saying that’s always the case. But I think there’s a tendency for more affluent people to be more likely to be driving the big, heavy vehicles and they have a right to do that. But if they’re creating a disproportionate impact on the wear and tear of our infrastructure, then it’s I think there’s an argument to be made that they should be paying a little bit more then some others
Ian Donnis: Scott wolf executive director of Grow Smart Rhode Island, thank you for joining me.
Scott Wolf: A pleasure, thank you Ian.
