“God Talks to an Agnostic” is a radio play written and directed by Don Mays that explores the complicated role of the Black church in the life of a person struggling with their spirituality. The third season of “God Talks to an Agnostic” airs this weekend. Artscape producer James Baumgartner talked with Don earlier this week.
Transcript:
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
James Baumgartner: Don Mays, welcome to Artscape.
Don Mays: Thank you, glad to be here.
Baumgartner: Season three of “God Talks to an Agnostic” is about to wrap up this weekend, but it’s a podcast, so folks can get caught up. Let’s talk a little bit about what’s happened in season one and season two. It’s a big, expansive work. Season one, we met the agnostic. That’s our character’s name. That’s our main character, our narrator. And he hears from God, or he hears from someone. He goes out in the rain. What happens to him?
Mays: Yeah, so this character is born in the, raised in the tradition of the traditional Black Baptist, Southern Black Baptist church, and his family is very religious, and he started questioning religion and God and all those things very early on in his life, and he just kind of moved away from the church, although his family is still very connected to the church. But he moved away, the whole spirituality thing, and needing to have tangible answers to what exists on this planet and in life, and none of that was working for him with religion, so he just kind of separated himself from it. And then one day he had this experience where he was standing out in his yard and it started raining and he felt the rain, felt tingling on his skin and he just kind of allowed that to happen. And suddenly he hears this voice through the rain, through the rain, penetrating his skin.
[excerpt of “God Talks to an Agnostic”]
God: Help me to understand, why does this trouble you so?
The Agnostic: It’s just so, I mean if I’m the only one, how do I know, I mean, know know this is real?
God: Are you saying you don’t trust your own…
The Agnostic: Faith? Are you asking me, do I trust my own faith? Do I truly believe?
God: Do you?
The Agnostic: Do I? Do I? Do I truly believe that I can talk to the rain? Do I have faith? Faith in that?
Mays: And from that point on, he began to have these conversations, and the revelation to him was that this is the voice of God, or God is the being embodied in mother nature, basically. So the connection with nature and God is his connection with his, I won’t call it spirituality, but his understanding of what a higher power is.
Baumgartner: This has some resonances with your own life, if I understand correctly. You grew up in the Black Southern Baptist Church as well, in St. Louis, is that right?
Mays: Yes, it is, yep.
Baumgartner: And did you move away from the church, as well?
Mays: I did. I did. I own that Missouri motto, the “Show-me” state. So, if it’s not real and tangible, you know, I need to, you need to show me in order for me to believe it or to accept it. So I just kind of fell into that. And you know, there are certain things that just were hard to accept for me with religion. I think this is also mentioned in the first season where I talk about a guest minister who came to the church and he was talking about … very homophobic stuff and I was just like, after all we’ve been through as Black people, how can Black people be discriminatory? How can we discriminate against anyone? And that just didn’t sit well with me and other things just sort of kept making it more difficult. … None of that just resonated with me. So I kind of pulled away from the church. … And I don’t put down religion or people who are religious or people’s beliefs, you know. If that works for you, that’s perfectly fine with me. And I don’t judge or challenge that. But for me, you know, I need, I would like to have something more concrete.
Baumgartner: Along with the story of the agnostic communicating with the ancestor, communicating with God, he has this relationship with the Baxter family who has experienced a tragedy. What is that tragedy?
Mays: So that happens in season one where his girlfriend is Baxter. He calls her Baxter, by her last name. And her little brother was a Black unarmed teen who got killed by a police officer. I like to try to relate a lot of what’s going on in the world now with what’s happening in the Black experience in this piece. So this kid gets killed. He’s 18 years old, 18, 19 years old. He gets killed by a cop. And so all the controversy around that comes into play. And we touch on a number of issues within the piece around policing, brutality, whole issues about, around women owning and, and controlling their bodies, all those things kind of come into play as well as just touching on what’s actually happening.
Baumgartner: There’s a lot of drama. There’s a lot of heavy topics here. We’re talking about the existence of God, we’re talking about police brutality. But there’s some really wonderful small moments among the characters, among the family. Folks playing cards together, eating together. Tell me a little bit about that. How is that sprinkled in?
Mays: So the thing is, I want it to be familiar and realistic to folks who know families like this, who are, who have family members like these. And those moments are, I think, add the flavor to it, and also give an insight as to, give an insight on the Black experience or Black culture – the way Black families operate, and the way Black communities kind of communicate and work with each other. The agnostic’s sister, Addie, is a twin, so we have the yin and yang of that. She’s very religious and he’s agnostic. But they are very, very close because of their, you know, being twins. And she knows him better than anybody else and he knows her better than anybody else. And then you add in the girlfriend who is getting to know both of them. They just enjoy being around each other, enjoy each other’s company, but they also get on each other’s nerves. They kinda go back and forth with each other.
[excerpt from “God Talks to an Agnostic”]
Addie: No, you don’t understand, this is the nondest Spades-playing, the worst.
The Agnostic: C’mon y’all, I’m not that bad.
Baxter: Yeah, you are.
Glenn: Really?
Mother: He’s my son, and I love him.
Addie: He’s my twin brother, love him to death.
Jocelyn: But he’s just not good, not good!
Addie: Terrible!
Jocelyn: No no no, not good at all.
Addie: I don’t understand it.
Glenn: That bad, huh?
Addie & Jocelyn: Yes!
Mays: But the throughline is that element of love. There’s just, they love each other. They love each other as a family. They love each other as individuals. They are growing to love each other. The two families are growing to love each other.
Baumgartner: Has your relationship with religion changed as you’ve worked on this?
Mays: With religion, no. No, not with religion. I think I am possibly more open to people’s interpretations of how they do and – how they deal with religion, how they deal with spirituality and faith. And probably the biggest shift has been understanding people’s faith and the need for people to have faith, have a faith in something. But personally, I mean, it hasn’t made me, it hasn’t – my stance on religion hasn’t changed, and my understanding of, you know, what’s out there. I’ve always thought you stand at the shore of the ocean, and you see the power and majesty of that, and all that power is like it’s majestic, and it kind of grabs you in a way that to make you really appreciate nature. But that’s kind of where I, where I stand.
Baumgartner: Don Mays, thank you so much for talking with me.
Mays: Thank you, James, it’s been great.
The final episode of season three of “God Talks to an Agnostic” airs Saturday at 4 p.m. You can listen to every episode at thewilburygroup.org/agnostic, or by searching for “God Talks to an Agnostic” on your podcast app of choice.
