Lt. Ken Jones spoke with reporter Alex Nunes and began by talking about a dialogue he had with protesters in Providence on Saturday about his reaction to the killing of George Floyd.
JONES: I felt that it was murder. I felt that that gentleman should not have been treated that way. What I saw on video was someone being murdered.
NUNES: What was the response from activists after you said that to them?
JONES: I think the majority of them understood that I was authentic, that we were there to help, that we weren’t there to harm anyone, and that we were there as a show of concern. But we were also there to answer any questions that anyone may have had.
NUNES: As an African American member of law enforcement, what’s your reaction to seeing police violence against black people, including videos like the killing of George Floyd?
JONES: I have mixed feelings, and I can tell you that I try to stay neutral as much as I could. But then I have to question: exactly what are we in law enforcement, what are we really doing? We have to be honest. We have to be honest with ourselves. Growing up, I felt law enforcement treated people of color differently. I grew up down South in Memphis, Tenn., and we lived in a housing complex. Police responding to calls for service in this housing complex, at times they seemed very adversarial. They did not seem like they were there to help you. It was more as to, when they responded there, someone was getting arrested, and if you intervened or if you said anything, then you would get arrested also. As I got older, my opinion may have changed somewhat. However, recently I feel that there’s a systemic problem that we have, and we need to change that. And it weighs on me, because I feel like: What can I do to help and maybe stop perpetuating what appears to be a systemic bias towards people of color?
NUNES: What do you think is behind the problem, why violence against African Americans by police continues today?
JONES: I wish I knew. Unfortunately, we don’t know what’s in someone’s heart or what’s in their head. But I can tell you this: evidence supports that there is a bias towards people of color, and so I think there needs to be some type of reform so that there’s some accountability for law enforcement officers. There has to be.
NUNES: Do you think because you are African American and you are in law enforcement that you’re sometimes misunderstood by people because of your job?
JONES: I think so, because I’ve been told several times that you basically sold out and that you belong to a group or an organization that oppresses black people. And that’s something that is harmful. It hurts to hear that, because it’s most definitely not true. However, I do understand the criticism, and I do respect other people’s opinion. And at times you have to look at the facts, and the facts support that there’s a problem in law enforcement.
NUNES: I have heard that African American parents will speak with their children when they reach a certain age about how they interact with police. I’m wondering if you have kids or nieces or nephews and if you speak with them about that.
JONES: That’s a true statement. I think this is unfortunately a common statement that is shared in African American or people of color’s home. And it’s one that you have to be very, very careful as not to basically get shot. If you do or say the wrong things, it could end your life.
NUNES: What’s that like for you personally to have to have that conversation?
JONES: It hurts. There’s nothing else I can say. It hurts.
NUNES: How long have you worked in law enforcement?
JONES: Approximately 23 years.
NUNES: Do you think in that time progress has been made in this area, or has it gotten worse? Has it stayed the same?
JONES: Just by the recent incidents it’s indicative that we have not. We have not made any changes as far as the perception. A month from now or maybe a year from now, we are probably going to have to deal with something like this again. And this has been going on for years now. This is not something that the minority community just thought up for the last week or so.
NUNES: What do you think needs to happen to fix this?
JONES: I believe there has to be some type of reform. We, as police officers, need to be held accountable. Different agencies have different standards, different training. And I think that there has to be uniformity in how we train our police officers. One police department can’t have defensive tactics that is different than another police department.
NUNES: You met separately this week with an activist you met on Saturday. Do you think that you’ll continue to reach out and speak with people in the Black Lives Matter movement?
JONES: I hope so. I have personally volunteered and will volunteer my time, and will meet with anyone at anytime because this, to me, is important.
NUNES: We had peaceful protests on Saturday in Providence. Later on in the week, people came out and were violent and destructive in Providence. Do you have any message that you want to convey to people who are frustrated and are demonstrating?
JONES: Yes, I do. I wish and I hope that those people out there that are frustrated and are hurt—there’s another way to convey your message. We have to heal at some point. We have to. And I just feel that we need to take the time and reflect on what we’re doing and think about the repercussions down the road.
NUNES: Lt. Ken Jones of the Rhode Island State Police, thanks so much for speaking with me.
JONES: My pleasure, sir.
Alex Nunes can be reached at anunes@thepublicsradio.org.
