Rhode Island’s housing crisis has worsened for decades, due to a growing gap between what people earn and the cost of housing. Past attempts to address the situation have failed to make real progress. And Pryor’s predecessor as housing secretary, Josh Saal, resigned after a year on the job. Can Pryor move the ball forward, now that housing has emerged as a top statewide issue? I’m Ian Donnis. This week, I’m going in-depth with Rhode Island’s secretary of housing, Stefan Pryor.
Ian Donnis: Stefan Pryor, welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Stefan Pryor: Good to be back, Ian. Thank you.
Ian Donnis: You started on the job as housing Secretary a few weeks ago how what are you doing right now to try and confront Rhode Island’s housing crisis?
Stefan Pryor: We’re focused on three things: one is increasing housing production with a special focus on increasing the production of affordable housing, housing for lower income Rhode Islanders. But it is important that throughout the market, we increase the amount of supply that exists, Second of three, we’re working on homelessness, we’re working on ensuring that in the near term, there are more emergency opportunities for individuals who are unsheltered meaning shelters and warming centers. But over the longer term, we’re trying to build permanent supportive housing for our most vulnerable residents. And third, we need to organize government better. The truth of the matter is that is that housing efforts in Rhode Island have come in fits and starts. There’s too many uncoordinated agencies at the task very fine professionals. But we need to bring things together.
Ian Donnis: The state issued an RFP request for proposal for consultant to develop a plan to address the housing crisis has that RFP been awarded?
Stefan Pryor: It has not been awarded, there — responses have come back and the evaluation process is underway.
Ian Donnis: And certainly housing is a complex issue. But many aspects of the problem are very familiar to me. They’re familiar to you. They’re familiar to anyone who’s been in Rhode Island for any period of time, after your predecessor, Josh Saal was on the job for a year. Why does the state not already have a plan to confront the housing crisis?
Stefan Pryor: Well, I can’t respond as to what did not happen in my absence. But what I can say is, we’re off to a strong start a coalition of funders and stakeholders, the Rhode Island Foundation, the United Way, LISC [Local Initiatives Support Corporation] and others have already come together to support us in some sprints in the coming weeks, not months, to reorganize and reorganize ourselves. They’re supported by some outside consultants, so that we can diagnose the problems and start introducing solutions. And we’re also setting the table for this plan, the plan will take months, it should because the problem has accumulated over decades. So we should get the plan right. But we need to identify what are the right growth goals for our state, you know, we should aim to grow population. That’s what a healthy state does. It also helps us keep congressional seats and other important political things that bring resources home to Rhode Island, but we need to also provide the room for our children and grandchildren to stay here. So we’ve got to have growth goals. We’ve got to identify how we’re going to help our most vulnerable residents actually find supportive housing and the other things that are essential.
Ian Donnis: In your former role as the state’s top economic development official you courted and championed big projects like the rehab of the Superman building, the new soccer stadium in Pawtucket. Housing perhaps is a more complex, multifaceted issue. Have you engaged in any kind of personal reflection on how you have to recalibrate your approach, and perhaps learn other things to do your job?
Stefan Pryor: I have. Well, first of all, I do have a background that includes housing, it hasn’t been my solitary focus. But when I was the deputy mayor of Newark, New Jersey, I oversaw economic development and housing development. And we saw the increase of affordable housing development in our city. We started to focus on abandoned property and the reuse thereof for housing purposes and other relevant points. And here in Rhode Island, when I was the Commerce Secretary, even in the absence of a formalized role for anyone in the government around housing, I was among the co-authors of the plan for 250 million more dollars out of the American Rescue Plan for housing investment, helped to introduce with colleagues, a plan for a steady funding stream for the first time off the realty transfer tax. So my point is, both as a practitioner in government and as someone on the scene trying to prepare the way for better housing investment, I do have a background for it. Now, having said that, we’re starting by listening precisely because it hasn’t been my solitary focus in my past in my in my professional life. We’re starting by listening. So we’ve held meetings with 30 of the key stakeholders, advocates and practitioners in Rhode Island in one room at the United Way, hearing from them how we should conduct even more public input and how we could how we should go about our planning process. So we’re going to start by listening, Ian even as we are taking actions.
Ian Donnis: The housing crisis is fundamentally a supply issue. We know the number of housing starts in Rhode Island has plummeted over time. Why is that?
Stefan Pryor: Well, you raise an important point. And I think it’s critical that listeners understand that it’s significantly dropped from over 5500 housing starts in the 1980s 1988, through to around 3000 in 2005, to only about 1200 last year. That’s down from the 80s at 5500. That’s way too low. So we are not building the housing we need for our children, for our grandchildren for everyone up and down the income strata. So the reasons are several one, towns often wish to advance projects, but don’t have the tools, the infrastructure on the tool side, they don’t have the staffing capacity, there can be one planner in some instances shared across multiple towns, so they don’t even have the staffing structure to get the job done. They wish to. So I’d like to see us, perhaps the state and municipalities share expense and share staffing to get it going. We need to invest more in the infrastructure, water, sewer, roadways and more that are needed. And we have to yes, invest directly in affordable housing, because it always requires resources to write down the price points. We need to invest more in affordable housing, even beyond the very generous $250 million out of the American rescue plan. We’ve got to go further. And we’ve got to routinize our investment in this state.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned that $250 million of that about 170 million will go for housing production, how far how many housing units will that create? And since the consensus is that it only get us part of the way there, Where will the rest of the money come from to really address the housing crisis?
Stefan Pryor: A couple points one, on how many units it depends upon how those investments are made. So if you invest in projects where the capital stack or the full budget is not actually realized, meaning there are gaps in the budget, then it will result in no units. You can allocate funds and result in no production. So my point there, it’s a dramatic point. But what I mean to say is that you need to be careful to calibrate precisely your answer based upon what the projects are promising, how they fulfill their budgets, does the development team have the capacity to carry it out? Do they have their entitlements, meaning their permits at the local level, we’re going to examine all of that. And even more importantly, Ian, we’re going to establish a team at the state level thanks to Governor McKee’s proposing a new department with multiple new staff positions, a department with the capacity to help municipalities and help developers get these projects going so that we can evaluate them and invest wisely in tandem with Rhode Island housing, which is a separate entity. So that’s part of my answer on how we can pay for it going forward. We do need to in collaboration with the General Assembly. And big thanks to speakers Shekarchi and senate president Ruggerio for their tremendous leadership on this. We need to introduce some new measures. One that I’m tracking is the creation of for example, matching for the Federal Low Income Tax Credit one of the major engines for affordable housing growth in the United States. We don’t have a state match, per se, some states do. So we’re tracking that closely. And one of the examples that I want to point out is Georgia. In Georgia, over time, they have allocated on a one to one basis dollars for the purpose of affordable housing production matching the federal initiative. And they they see on an annual basis in excess of $20 million of investment from the state. It’s a good example of good a good reference point for us.
Ian Donnis: I’ve learned that how speaker Joe Shekarchi will be an unveiling a package of housing bills toward the end of next week. What What have you learned about the substance of the this proposal?
Stefan Pryor: Speaker Shekarchi has expressed that there will be reforms and improvements related to land use that in my estimation, based upon what I’ve been able to devine so far, may help to really make more regularized and more professionalized the process of approving housing at the local level that would be welcomed. If that were to be true. I have not yet seen the package or its elements. But I think that’s extremely important. And I hope we can dialogue about those elements and refine them and also include companion financing measures like I’ve described.
Ian Donnis: On the local level. That is a big issue, as you say, we know that zoning can be an impediment to efforts to create more housing and now some officials in rural communities in particular are digging in their heels against the idea of state mandates to create more housing, and affordable housing. How do you overcome that?
Stefan Pryor: We, on my very first day on the job a couple of weeks ago, we held a meeting with the executive director of the League of Cities and towns Ernie Almonte. Big thanks to Ernie. And then we followed up only a few days later with a mini summit among mayors and town managers, right in our offices, 25 different communities were represented. We went around the room and talked about the barriers, the opportunities, the tools that cities and towns need, and the projects that they’re helping to make happen already in terms of housing production. So we’re off to a strong start, I think the department of housing needs to engage very closely with town leaders, understand their concerns and their priorities and help to realize their goals. And I also think that it’s extremely important that a package like speaker Shekarchi’s does advance to give even more regularization and professionalization to the process at the local level.
Ian Donnis: As part of the state’s response to the needs of the homeless, the state opened a warming center at the Cranston street Armory in Providence, I’m hearing from some residents in the area that they’re encountering needles, condoms, abusive comments by members of the homeless. Now, granted, you know, living in a city sometimes brings issues that you don’t find in other places. But what can be done to address these concerns?
Stefan Pryor: A lot can be done. I believe that more has been done. I’m going to track this closely. I’m only on the job for a couple of weeks now. But I believe that trash pickup and other sanitation has improved. I have to see that in reports and understand that folks are being held accountable properly. But I think it’s happening. We’re reaching out to the neighborhood, we’re having more conversations about what can be done. And I want to say this as a big thank you to the neighborhood. And a big thank you to the city of Providence, your receptivity and welcoming spirit, which has been evident has made all the difference because the truth is that our unsheltered brothers and sisters have no other place to go, in many instances have no other place to go. And many communities across Rhode Island need to be welcoming. We need to create the sanitation and the public safety that makes these facilities possible. But we do need these kinds of warming centers and shelters en route to permanent supportive, supportive housing for folks. That’s how we protect our most vulnerable residents.
Ian Donnis: Finally, your predecessor as housing secretary Josh Sol, resigned earlier this year after losing the support of state leaders, but he’s been retained as a $105 an hour consultant. If he was not the right person to remain as housing secretary, why should he remain as a consultant for the state?
Stefan Pryor: Well, first of all, it’s important to note that the conversation regarding his retention, as I understand it began in the conversation about his departure. So it was a function of the transition of him out of that that full role. And the reason that any organization often has some overlap between the chief executives, it’s just to make sure that you don’t miss a step. So it would be a shame if it were acrimonious. The transition, it was a rather abrupt transition. I certainly did not expect to be in this role at this point in time. And it’s very important that we know where are certain projects were was an item that was controversial or complex left. How were you planning to proceed with XYZ. So it’s extremely important that it happened because the goal ought to be, Ian, that we do everything in our power to move forward for Rhode Islanders to move the needle for Rhode Islanders on producing more housing with an emphasis on affordable housing.
Ian Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us. Rhode Island housing Secretary Stefan Pryor.
Stefan Pryor: Thank you as always Ian, I appreciate it.
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Offering robust public transit in a small state like Rhode Island might seem like a fairly straightforward thing. But the Ocean State’s small size sometimes makes getting things done more complicated. And a battle continues over the future of RIPTA, the state’s public transit agency, after state Senate President Dominick Ruggerio last week called for a major reorganization. What would it take to improve RIPTA? You can read about that and a lot more in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at thepublicsradio.org or on Twitter @IanDon.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
