Iranians debate whether the war is worth it

VAN, Turkey — It has been more than one month since the U.S. and Israel began bombing Iran. The U.S. says it has hit more than 10,000 targets. But U.S.- and Norway-based human rights groups estimate that at least hundreds of Iranian civilians have also been killed.

The war has also widened bitter ideological divides among Iranians in and outside the country over whether the conflict has been justified.

“There is difficulty [with the bombing], but we are not that weak,” says one Iranian woman from Tehran, traveling to Turkey for a short break, given that her work has stopped due to the U.S. and Israeli bombing of the capital city. “In the past few years, the Islamic Republic [of Iran] has proved to us that we cannot trust them. But we were in war with Israel in the summer [during the 12-day war], and we saw how precise their targeting was, so we trust them.”

“We are going to build a nuclear bomb now, because there’s no fatwa against it anymore,” interjects an Iranian man, overhearing her remarks, referring to a rumored religious ban on nuclear weapons issued by Iran’s former supreme leader, whom Israel assassinated with U.S. help at the beginning of the war in late February.

Like all the Iranians in this story, the two people asked to remain anonymous. They have received texts from the Iranian government and have seen signs coming out of Iran warning them not to speak to foreign media on pain of arrest.

A microcosm of divergent opinions

Just across the border with Iran, in eastern Turkey, the Turkish city of Van is just as full as during prewar times, with thousands of Iranian workers, consulate employees, students and tourists, who are traveling despite the war in their home country. Van has also become a microcosm of the full range of divergent opinions that Iranians have about the war.

“There is no such thing as hardship in Iran,” says one Iranian man, who crossed into Turkey for his job last week. “Everyone lives freely, woman or man.”

Next to him, a second Iranian man looks at him, wide-eyed and shaking.

“In two days, the government killed 40,000 people,” the man says, referring to a government crackdown in January on protesters. A U.S.-based human rights group has confirmed over 7,000 deaths, but many Iranians believe the death toll is far higher.

NPR has not been able to travel and report inside Iran, so it has been interviewing Iranians traveling through border areas, including in eastern Turkey.

The dozens of Iranians NPR has interviewed transiting through Van may not be representative of all Iranians in the country. Many Iranians in Van are those wealthy enough to travel. But there are also poorer Iranians working, often under the table, in Turkey. A few Iranians I met and interviewed say they are heading off to study abroad.

The commonality among most Iranians NPR spoke with is that they feel they have lost opportunities — to make a living, to voice their opinions, simply to live — under the current government, which they say must go.

“Our pain is something you have to feel for yourself [to understand],” says one Iranian man who has been working in Turkey for the last year. He spent the previous seven years in prison, he says, after being accused of being an anti-Islamic heretic. “Iran’s security forces … took everything from us. They only give pain. They are pain incarnate,” he says, so much so, he is willing to lose all he has, even his family in Iran, for his government to be wiped out.

“The war should never have started,” says one Iranian university student. “But now that it has, the U.S. and Israel should finish it,” she says, meaning toppling Iran’s regime.

“Met with bullets“

Some Iranians who support the war against their own country say their perspectives are indelibly shaped by that government crackdown in early January. This year’s killings of demonstrators finally made them realize, they say, that decades of popular resistance would never change their government.

“Three of my own friends were killed” in the crackdown, says one Iranian man. He crossed into Turkey last week to earn money, more than he could make in Iran. “My friends were all young. I knew them all my life. Yet the government killed them so easily.”

“Every two years, there is a big protest,” he says. Research from Stanford University published this year found thousands of instances of dissent over the last decade and a half, averaging to one protest every three days inside Iran.

But this time, his hometown, in Iran’s western Kermanshah province, was brutally punished by government paramilitary groups for people in his town participating in January’s protests.

“It is as if my town has been burned down. Nothing is left of it,” he says. “I see no future for my children in Iran.” His only hope now, he says, is a foreign intervention. “Our only hope is Trump. Our only hope is that Trump and Bibi [Israel’s prime minister] make the right moves.”

“We are scared of the bombing,” an Iranian woman says. “But we are happy thinking that there might be a light at the end of this darkness. When our young people went out and protested this January, they were met with bullets. With slaughter. With executions.”

Nearly all the Iranians traveling in Turkey who spoke to NPR said they are hopeful about Iran. They have immediate plans to return to their country and stressed that they are not leaving it. Migration data from the United Nations shows fewer Iranians are leaving Iran for Turkey than before the war.

“We are not fleeing,” says one young Tehran resident. Even though she almost lost an eye in the anti-government demonstrations this winter, she says she is going back to Tehran in a few days. “We are determined to rebuild our country, and if the government changes, I will work, for free if needed.”